Utter audio noob somewhat disillusioned with the amp/dac market, looking for advice...

[lukeman3000]

Hi guys. First off, I'm in the process of educating myself on amps, dacs, and the like. It's a lot to take in. What I really want is to not necessarily become an expert in this field but to learn enough to make a good, informed buying decision.

I own a pair of DT-990 Pro 250ohm headphones. I know they're not super awesome but they seem pretty good for gaming and music (though I do have my eye on the 1990s...).

Anyways, when I first tried running my 990s directly from my desktop PC mobo's stereo output, they were satisfactory and I could almost get them as loud as I would've preferred. But, after asking around, it became evident that "just because it's loud enough" does not mean that you're getting a high quality experience. I'll admit I still don't understand the intricacies of this and why this is such.

But that said, I have decided that I want a headphone amp (and I guess a DAC as well cause I'll need one of those as far as I'm aware). In my haste I went ahead and ordered an Audioengine D1 for $169, which does give me more volume (still not quite enough in some cases), and it seems to have DRASTICALLY improved the sound. Switching back and forth between the D1 and my mobo's output is just.. insane. I had no idea what I was missing out on. When listening to live music performances it sounds like everything is more spaced out - I can identify the individual instruments much more easily and hear the details of them better. It actually feels almost like I'm there in the room when I close my eyes. I understand now at least to some degree what I was missing out on.

As I mentioned, though, the D1 is still too quiet in some cases and I just don't have any extra headroom. Furthermore, I've seen some people speak poorly of Audioengine, calling the D1 "junk". And yet, the reviews on Amazon and Crutchfield and the like are all very positive, some reviews seemingly coming from experts in the field. I can return the D1 to Amazon easily enough.

So I got to looking into other options like the Schiit Magni/Modi, but the more I looked into it, the more I found disparaging comments about these devices, and Schiit in general. Despite so many websites and users recommending the Magni/Modi stack otherwise. I think one such disparaging thread was somewhere on this very forum, and in a certain reddit comment a user tore Schiit apart talking about how they're just marketing without the engineering to back it up.

So what the hell is the truth? Here's what I'm looking for: a relatively non-ugly, preferably combination amp/dac unit for my DT-990 Pro 250ohm (bearing in mind I may upgrade to the 1990s later), and most importantly, a unit that has the respect of people who know what they're talking about. Preferably a unit that doesn't have a ****** pot or any glaring design issues that will take advantage of my 990s and allow them to shine as much as possible given my budget (probably $400 or less)

After some more searching I came across the JDS Labs Element II which would seem to tick all my boxes. I even found a thread on it here that seemed positive in general. I'm primarily a gamer and I like to listen to music on iTunes as well. Would this meet my needs, or are there some other units I should consider, or even a discrete unit combination?

 

[VMAT4]

Maybe you could buy a JDS Atom amp. Run that from your computer's analogue outs for the time being. And, see what comes to the DAC market later. Before you buy a DAC.

 

[lukeman3000]

Maybe you could buy a JDS Atom amp. Run that from your computer's analogue outs for the time being. And, see what comes to the DAC market later. Before you buy a DAC.

I'm not necessarily opposed to that idea, but, is there any reason why I shouldn't just get the singular unit (which admittedly, looks pretty nice)?

I really like the idea of having a single unit doing both things. Do you think it's unlikely I'd get a noticeable benefit comparing the computer's analogue output to sending it through the DAC first?

Furthermore, is the DAC portion of the Element II not held in high esteem for some reason?

 

[Fluffy]

Hi guys. First off, I'm in the process of educating myself on amps, dacs, and the like. It's a lot to take in. What I really want is to not necessarily become an expert in this field but to learn enough to make a good, informed buying decision.

You have come to the right place, my friend.

First of all, if you want to skip the explanations, I took the liberty of plugging the appropriate filters (as I understand them from you post) in the Audio Electronics Reviews and Measurements Index. You can see what are your best options, according to the measurements performed on ASR:

There is a complete review and measurements for each one of these devices – meaning you don't have to trust anyone's subjective opinion. All of these devices that I filtered for had been given Amirm's recommendation, simply meaning they exceeded the transparency thresholds we expect from such devices. In short, a device that is audibly transparent impart no character of its own to the signal been passed through it, and effectively plays the sound exactly how it should be played.
I'll add to that, that for your particular case (250 ohm headphones), you should look at these measurements to see how each amp performs with 300 ohm load. Usually a target wattage of 100mw or more at peak volume (with low distortion) means that you would have plenty of headroom.

All this considered, the JDS Labs Element II indeed looks like it fits the bill.

 

[lukeman3000]

You have come to the right place, my friend.

First of all, if you want to skip the explanations, I took the liberty of plugging the appropriate filters (as I understand them from you post) in the Audio Electronics Reviews and Measurements Index. You can see what are your best options, according to the measurements performed on ASR:
View attachment 50064
There is a complete review and measurements for each one of these devices – meaning you don't have to trust anyone's subjective opinion. All of these devices that I filtered for had been given Amirm's recommendation, simply meaning they exceeded the transparency thresholds we expect from such devices. In short, a device that is audibly transparent impart no character of its own to the signal been passed through it, and effectively plays the sound exactly how it should be played.
I'll add to that, that for your particular case (250 ohm headphones), you should look at these measurements to see how each amp performs with 300 ohm load. Usually a target wattage of 100mw or more at peak volume (with low distortion) means that you would have plenty of headroom.

All this considered, the JDS Labs Element II indeed looks like it fits the bill.

Wow! Thank you so much for this reply.

I’m going to go over that chart you posted and dig into this a bit more, but I’m glad to know that the Element II has fairly universal approval here, or so it would seem. I’ll admit, I was not initially prepared to drop $400, but if it gets me what I want then I’m ok with that.

That said, is the Element II overkill for the 990s? Also, how does the community at large feel about the 990s, and the 1990s? Are 990s “good” headphones, and are the 1990s noticeably better in some aspects?

 

[A800]

I can recommend the XtremPro X1 DAC.
Superb performance and cheap.
Probably the deal of the century.

 

[Fluffy]

I’ll admit, I was not initially prepared to drop $400, but if it gets me what I want then I’m ok with that

You could probably do cheaper. I'm not intimately familiar with all the devices on that chart, but Topping DX3 Pro and Aune X1S are pretty recommended as well. Fiio K5 pro is even cheaper and also should be fine. Would not recommend a sub-100$ device that is a combo (probably too many compromises made).
My reasoning for buying a capable dac/amp straight away instead of first buying an amp and seeing if you need a dac (like VMAT4 suggested), it that you will most likely upgrade to this kind of setup eventually, so it's best to skip the intermediate solutions, thus saving money and time.

That said, is the Element II overkill for the 990s?

Nothing in these price ranges is overkill. Besides, look at this like an investment – if you buy a capable device now, you could comfortably upgrade your headphones in the future (if you feel like it), without worrying that you will need to get a new setup. And by the way, it totally makes sense that your electronics would cost more than your headphones (at least in these sensible price ranges for headphones).

Are 990s “good” headphones, and are the 1990s noticeably better in some aspects?

You can check out measurements of those models in https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/
Though it's hard to translate those directly to how they would actually sound to you. My usual suggestion is to look for a physical store that has them, and have a listen.

 

[VMAT4]

I'm not necessarily opposed to that idea, but, is there any reason why I shouldn't just get the singular unit (which admittedly, looks pretty nice)?

I really like the idea of having a single unit doing both things. Do you think it's unlikely I'd get a noticeable benefit comparing the computer's analogue output to sending it through the DAC first?

Furthermore, is the DAC portion of the Element II not held in high esteem for some reason?

I use a JDS Atom amp and a Topping D30 DAC. Total cost about $220 . I was trying to avoid this but, there are rumors that there will be an Atom DAC.

 

[Kouioui]

I'm primarily a gamer and I like to listen to music on iTunes as well. Would this meet my needs, or are there some other units I should consider, or even a discrete unit combination?

For a gamer I would think the usb/coax/optical/rca inputs on the K5 Pro would be an advantage. I've had mine since last Nov powering 300 ohm Senns and JBL LSRs w/sub.

Average dac and a powerful amp for $150 is hard to beat and if you use powered speakers most of those have average dacs. Get a cheap smart AC outlet for speakers/sub as the K5 doesn't have output switching.

 

[lukeman3000]

You could probably do cheaper. I'm not intimately familiar with all the devices on that chart, but Topping DX3 Pro and Aune X1S are pretty recommended as well. Fiio K5 pro is even cheaper and also should be fine. Would not recommend a sub-100$ device that is a combo (probably too many compromises made).
My reasoning for buying a capable dac/amp straight away instead of first buying an amp and seeing if you need a dac (like VMAT4 suggested), it that you will most likely upgrade to this kind of setup eventually, so it's best to skip the intermediate solutions, thus saving money and time.


Nothing in these price ranges is overkill. Besides, look at this like an investment – if you buy a capable device now, you could comfortably upgrade your headphones in the future (if you feel like it), without worrying that you will need to get a new setup. And by the way, it totally makes sense that your electronics would cost more than your headphones (at least in these sensible price ranges for headphones).

You can check out measurements of those models in https://diyaudioheaven.wordpress.com/
Though it's hard to translate those directly to how they would actually sound to you. My usual suggestion is to look for a physical store that has them, and have a listen.

Nice. This is all exactly the kind of information I was looking for. Thank you very much!

I feel like I'm learning toward an all-in-one solution like the Element II. I will probably look at the others on that list and see what I think before making a final decision, but based on what I'm hearing I can't really go wrong with any one of those. Am I correct to assume that any one of those would give me sufficient headroom and such?

Also, what exactly is going on with the likes of Audioengine and Schiit and such? It's strange to me how these products can have seemingly tons of positive reviews, and yet there is also a vocal minority that speaks out against them. Maybe I'm generalizing too much and I don't want to put words in anyone's mouth, but that's as it appears to me. I'm just curious what the deal is here. (Though to be fair, I haven't seen anyone really talk about Audioengine, whatsoever).

Thanks again for the help - to everyone in this thread. I really appreciate the fact that you gave me the information I needed - not too much and not too little. Thank you for speaking to me at my level, no pun intended.

 

[lukeman3000]

For a gamer I would think the usb/coax/optical/rca inputs on the K5 Pro would be an advantage. I've had mine since last Nov powering 300 ohm Senns and JBL LSRs w/sub.

Average dac and a powerful amp for $150 is hard to beat and if you use powered speakers most of those have average dacs. Get a cheap smart AC outlet for speakers/sub as the K5 doesn't have output switching.

Well, I'm only a PC gamer these days so USB is pretty much all I care about. I don't think I'll ever go back to console after gaming on a high-end machine with a high refresh rate monitor and the like.

 

[Kouioui]

Well, I'm only a PC gamer these days so USB is pretty much all I care about. I don't think I'll ever go back to console after gaming on a high-end machine with a high refresh rate monitor and the like.

In that case something with an XLR mic input might be worth considering. Motu has a new affordable M2 but it hasn't been reviewed here yet. My son's a PC/VR/console gamer and nemo inputs.

 

[lukeman3000]

In that case something with an XLR mic input might be worth considering. Motu has a new affordable M2 but it hasn't been reviewed here yet. My son's a PC/VR/console gamer and nemo inputs.

You mean for if I wanted to use an XLR mic while gaming or if I was going to stream or something like that? Honestly, I don't want to deal with a mic in front of my face (personally). Actually, I just purchased an installed a Modmic USB onto my DT-990s and it apparently has great quality. When I joined into a discord voice chat some guy was asking who had the good mic, and that it sounded like I was on a podcast or something like that (lol).

 

[Kouioui]

You mean for if I wanted to use an XLR mic while gaming or if I was going to stream or something like that?.

XLRs have zero lag compared to USB and competitive online gamers are all about the need fo' speed.

 

[lukeman3000]

XLRs have zero lag compared to USB and competitive online gamers are all about the need fo speed.

Perhaps. Though, I question how much difference in lag the mic makes versus the time it takes the signal to travel across the internet. I would think the former would be substantially less impactful than the latter, but I haven’t looked up any data on this.

I’m willing to trade a few milliseconds for the comfort of the Modmic, which is attached directly to my headphones via adhesive magnetic clasp. It’s a really cool product, actually.

 

[Kouioui]

Only gaming I ever do is an occasional racing or flight sim. I still think the K5 Pro would work great for what you're looking to do. Here's a recent video review.

 

[lukeman3000]

Only gaming I ever do is an occasional racing or flight sim. I still think the K5 Pro would work great for what you're looking to do. Here's a recent video review.

I will certainly consider this, and I’ll watch that video as well.

Will any of the recommendations of that list that Fluffy shared power my 250 ohm 990s with headroom to spare?

Also, what if anything am I missing out on going with the K5 Pro versus the Element II? Does the K5 Pro have a high build quality and a good pot?

Another Q - I noticed someone said that the Element II doesn’t have a digital pot, or something like that. Can you tell me what that means and what the disadvantages are?

 

[frogmeat69]

Topping D10 and the Atom amp for a killer and cheap stack, the Topping DX3 Pro or FiiO K5 pro if you want an all in one for a lower price.

 

[Kouioui]

lukeman3000 -

1. Look for ones with ~1W or greater output @ ~33 ohms for hard to drive planars
2. Both have good build quality. Dust factor worse on top vs front pot. JDS made in the US so labor cost higher
3. JDS has better measuring dac and amp, output switch on back, no coax/optical input, hi/low gain vs 3 on K5
4. K5 digital pot - better channel balance at low volumes and changes color to indicate sample rate

 

[lukeman3000]

After reading through all the reviews from headphone reviews from the filtered list (headphone dac/amps $400 or less that are not portable and recommended), as well as checking out the aesthetics of each one (yes, I'm a bit superficial), I find myself really leaning towards the Element II.

However, I have a couple concerns about the Element II. The first is the analog pot. Does this mean only mean that the channel balance is a bit out of whack at low volumes, but otherwise it's not seen as a detriment? If digital is superior why would this $400 piece of tech not have digital instead of analog? And how low is low, exactly?

Also, that's a good point about dust. Will dust have a tendency to get into the pot and muck it up in some way? If so, that's kind of a major turn off...

I was also considering the Aune X1s, and I guess the K5 isn't out of the running just yet but I wasn't really feeling it. I also became aware of the Topping DX3 Pro which was hiding under the "DAC/Headphone Amp/Streamer" hardware type on that chart. It was recommended. But I did stumble across this one review on Amazon which made the think twice. I also don't know what it being a "Streamer" means. And I'm still not sure exactly how to determine if an amp would sufficiently drive my headphones (I've tried to find this "1W or greater output @ ~300ohms" rating but can't seem to find it). I also ran across one commentator on Amazon who said "Built in 2019 but with 2018 problems. Unfortunately, after numerous negative reports, I do not consider it reliable for the safety of other connected devices".

Anyways, I'm most leaning towards the Element II but I'm still apprehensive about it for the aforementioned reasons (not sure exactly how bad having an analog pot is, and also concerns about dust infiltrating the unit as brought up by Kouioui).