Todays way to go for Dolby Atmos Preamp

[nm4711]

Do you think you can simply disconnect the amp section and the firmware will not throw errors? I dont think so.
If thats the case no pre-pro´s have any rights for there existence...

I think you can. Here is a thread with pictures where a guy takes the signal from the preamp section and wires it to an added cinch jack. Furthermore he adds cinch inputs to use the AVRs amps, so you can connect a DSP inbetween for example:
https://www.nubert-forum.de/nuforum/viewtopic.php?p=972879#p972879

He did this with alot of AVRs, but his goal is to use the AVRs amps directly for selfmade active speakers or stuff like this:
https://www.nubert-forum.de/nuforum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=36789

It is not easy on all AVRs, but it seems like, that in newer Denon models the Preamps are connected with the Amps over a multi wire cable. But I don't know wich connector they use. If you get one of these you wouldn't even have to solder on the AVRs PCBs.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

I think you can. Here is a thread with pictures where a guy takes the signal from the preamp section and wires it to an added cinch jack. Furthermore he adds cinch inputs to use the AVRs amps, so you can connect a DSP inbetween for example:
https://www.nubert-forum.de/nuforum/viewtopic.php?p=972879#p972879

He did this with alot of AVRs, but his goal is to use the AVRs amps directly for selfmade active speakers or stuff like this:
https://www.nubert-forum.de/nuforum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=36789

It is not easy on all AVRs, but it seems like, that in newer Denon models the Preamps are connected with the Amps over a multi wire cable. But I don't know wich connector they use. If you get one of these you wouldn't even have to solder on the AVRs PCBs.

Thank you for links. Checked some of them. Very doable.

 

[DanDilla]

hi,
I‘m looking to build pair active stereo speakers, 3 Way, with an DSP for active crossover and an okto dac-8 as preamp/dac. The additional 2 Channels would could be used for an active-crossover center.
is there an Atmos AVR under 2500€ with 9.2 (5.2.4) Outputs (Cinch would be okay, XLR preferred) which can provide at least the stereo fronts (center would also be good) as Digital out to feed the DSP/ Active Crossover without DAC-ADC Conversion?
Size doesn’t matter.
as the options I found are all at 3k (Emotiva, which seems tobe bugged with Dirac) or more and I have to buy a new receiver in any case and I would really like to go with XLR, what are the best and cheapest options for that setup (5.2.4/XLR/Atmos/Room Correction/4K HDR) if I would connect the front and center with the optical tv out? Would there be significant audio losses if I have to go the route over the tv opt out (Panasonic crw 854)?


thanks

 

[chriss.chneider]

I think you can. Here is a thread with pictures where a guy takes the signal from the preamp section and wires it to an added cinch jack. Furthermore he adds cinch inputs to use the AVRs amps, so you can connect a DSP inbetween for example:
https://www.nubert-forum.de/nuforum/viewtopic.php?p=972879#p972879

He did this with alot of AVRs, but his goal is to use the AVRs amps directly for selfmade active speakers or stuff like this:
https://www.nubert-forum.de/nuforum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=36789

It is not easy on all AVRs, but it seems like, that in newer Denon models the Preamps are connected with the Amps over a multi wire cable. But I don't know wich connector they use. If you get one of these you wouldn't even have to solder on the AVRs PCBs.

I wrote the guy. If i can get an answer i will tell it.
Thanks first

 

[SpaceMonkey]

hi,
I‘m looking to build pair active stereo speakers, 3 Way, with an DSP for active crossover and an okto dac-8 as preamp/dac. The additional 2 Channels would could be used for an active-crossover center.
is there an Atmos AVR under 2500€ with 9.2 (5.2.4) Outputs (Cinch would be okay, XLR preferred) which can provide at least the stereo fronts (center would also be good) as Digital out to feed the DSP/ Active Crossover without DAC-ADC Conversion?
Size doesn’t matter.
as the options I found are all at 3k (Emotiva, which seems tobe bugged with Dirac) or more and I have to buy a new receiver in any case and I would really like to go with XLR, what are the best and cheapest options for that setup (5.2.4/XLR/Atmos/Room Correction/4K HDR) if I would connect the front and center with the optical tv out? Would there be significant audio losses if I have to go the route over the tv opt out (Panasonic crw 854)?


thanks

Man, what you want to do is a bit difficult as no receiver will output digital by any normal means. You have to check whether any receivers can spit out the audio signal you need via hdmi output (in addition to internal routing) then you can try extracting hdmi audio using exctractor and feeding it to your OCTO.
Otherwise you need to hack a receiver and get spdif out from the board.
Which DSP you want to use, btw?

 

[DanDilla]

Thanks for the quick reply!
Do most AVRs do NOT pass through the HDMI including Audio to the TV so I can not use the optical out of my tv?

I found the Emotiva XMC-2 which got an optical out, from the rest of the facts it’s a really interesting processor, but if you read the forums about the XMC-1 it got some serious bugs and they promised Dirac at the release a year ago and theres none until now. At that price point I would expect more. Other options seem to start at 5k+.

At the moment it’s just a planned project to be completed until summer, so the plans may change: at the moment I‘m considering a FreeDSP Aurora as it seems it would be the easiest way to get aes/ebu out from the dsp. Otherwise 2 minidsp miniSharc.
If there’s an usb solution I would Consider that.
A raspberry pi or a Mac mini will be next to the dsp but a stand-alone is preferred.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Thanks for the quick reply!
Do most AVRs do NOT pass through the HDMI including Audio to the TV so I can not use the optical out of my tv?

I found the Emotiva XMC-2 which got an optical out, from the rest of the facts it’s a really interesting processor, but if you read the forums about the XMC-1 it got some serious bugs and they promised Dirac at the release a year ago and theres none until now. At that price point I would expect more. Other options seem to start at 5k+.

At the moment it’s just a planned project to be completed until summer, so the plans may change: at the moment I‘m considering a FreeDSP Aurora as it seems it would be the easiest way to get aes/ebu out from the dsp. Otherwise 2 minidsp miniSharc.
If there’s an usb solution I would Consider that.
A raspberry pi or a Mac mini will be next to the dsp but a stand-alone is preferred.

You really need to verify with owners what can be output by preamps/amps via hdmi port. also i think there migth be a downmix on hdmi output and not the front channels signal.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

You really need to verify with owners what can be output by preamps/amps via hdmi port....................

I don't know of preamps/amps that output anything by HDMI.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

I don't know of preamps/amps that output anything by HDMI.

Most likely you are right. It really needs checking on each device. Found this Sony STR-DH770 after quick googling:
https://helpguide.sony.net/ha/strdh77/v1/en/contents/TP0000960643.html
Alas only 2 channels with TV connected and I am not even sure if it is via HDMI or just 2 analog outputs.
Easier to hack spdif out from receiver motherboard.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Found this Sony STR-DH770 after quick googling:

That is a 7.2ch Home Theater AV Receiver and not a preamp, amp or preamp/amp. It may share some features of these items but it is distinctly different.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

That is a 7.2ch Home Theater AV Receiver and not a preamp, amp or preamp/amp. It may share some features of these items but it is distinctly different.

The only reason I mentioned this sony is within the initial context of this thread as topic starter is looking for "affordable". Obviously once you go into preamp/amp categories it is not affordable anymore (for normal folks). All preamps with ATMOS are more than 1k and something like Denon x3600/x4500 which allow for custom channel mapping are circa 1K and do provide linear outs for power amps. In terms of performance it seems that all AV products measured here are subpar compared to stereo but seems sufficient for home cinema.

Myself, I would be curious whether "affordable" preamp can be made from an existing receiver such as Denon x1500 with a bit of tweaking

 

[SpaceMonkey]

...

Kal, do you use ATMOS and if yes how do you process it?

 

[Kal Rubinson]

The only reason I mentioned this sony is within the initial context of this thread as topic starter is looking for "affordable". Obviously once you go into preamp/amp categories it is not affordable anymore (for normal folks).

I am not arguing this point but suggesting that you use more accurate terms in the discussion.

Kal, do you use ATMOS and if yes how do you process it?

I did for a while. I own a Maranz AV8805 and, while I had it for review" used a Trinnov Altitude 32. Now, I am keeping with 5.1.

 

[Sal1950]

Most likely you are right. It really needs checking on each device. Found this Sony STR-DH770 after quick googling:
https://helpguide.sony.net/ha/strdh77/v1/en/contents/TP0000960643.html
Alas only 2 channels with TV connected and I am not even sure if it is via HDMI or just 2 analog outputs.
Easier to hack spdif out from receiver motherboard.

That's the HDMI input it discusses in that pdf, for connection of Bluray players etc.

 

[DanDilla]

Thanks, I did not even think about the avr not giving the audio via hdmi out.
I will check this at the local stores.

hacking the spidf out of the mainboard sounds nice, but I need to learn more about this Little PCB stuff... learned electronics in my first job, but everything a scale bigger (industrial electronics/mechatronics)
if this should work only with (own) software I think i will wait for emotiva fixing their Dirac

Its not that important, using the Pre out of any decent avr to analog in on the dsp shouldn’t sound too bad, its just not how good it can be.

 

[chriss.chneider]

So now i found a good compromise.
I choose the x3600h.
This AV can completely disconnect the front channels from power amp section. You can also modify this amp in the preout section for a simply disconnect from the poweramp section for cinch outs if you want.
Nice feature is, if you choose pure direct mode without LFE on, this av is a true preamp. There is no adc-dsp-dac path active.
If you really need to have all channels high voltage preout you can modify it but the most important (front) is already done.
For me it is THE choose for everyone who dont want to spend thousands of money.
If anybody want i have the block diagram for the analog path and let me tell from denon itself that it does what i explain.

 

[SpaceMonkey]

So now i found a good compromise.
I choose the x3600h.
This AV can completely disconnect the front channels from power amp section. You can also modify this amp in the preout section for a simply disconnect from the poweramp section for cinch outs if you want.
Nice feature is, if you choose pure direct mode without LFE on, this av is a true preamp. There is no adc-dsp-dac path active.
If you really need to have all channels high voltage preout you can modify it but the most important (front) is already done.
For me it is THE choose for everyone who dont want to spend thousands of money.
If anybody want i have the block diagram for the analog path and let me tell from denon itself that it does what i explain.

A very expected outcome and a very natural choice. I dont have much experience with x3600 so i was wondering whether it is possible to switch off power amp section altogether on x3600?

 

[chriss.chneider]

Yes you can switch them from the board simply by disconecting the cables from power amp section. Take these cables and take them to cinch output. Yes its modifing but very simple. And you dont get the distortion of the power amp section so you can drive them with higher voltage as 1,2 volts with low distortion. If you really need it..

 

[SpaceMonkey]

Yes you can switch them from the board simply by disconecting the cables from power amp section. Take these cables and take them to cinch output. Yes its modifing but very simple. And you dont get the distortion of the power amp section so you can drive them with higher voltage as 1,2 volts with low distortion. If you really need it..

You mean even power supply from power section can be disconnected ?

 

[chriss.chneider]

preamp from amplifier section. Physiclal disconnected