Camera Sales Continue to Plummet

[Ron Texas]

https://nikonrumors.com/2020/02/03/cipa-december-numbers-are-out.aspx/

All categories have seen declines in units, the smallest in mirrorless system cameras. Mirrorless showed an increase in total value.

 

[Old Listener]

The detailed info at the CIPA site is worth a look.

CIPA numbers on camera shipments.

I been following the numbers for several years.
Lackluster economies in Asia have affected camera sales there in the last 1-2 years relative to other parts of the world. It is still a big market.

Another comparison is striking: mirrorless camera sales are now ahead of DSLR sales in values but closer in units shipped. The value per unit is now higher for mirrorless than for DSLRs in several markets. Low end DSLR body+kit lens might be the last refuge for DSLRs.

 

[FrantzM]

I started photography in my early teens on my father’s Canon mirrorless ... err... rangefinder 35 mm camera. I dreamed of a DSLR and when the time came, I graduated to a proper DSLR, a Nikkormat, IIRC. Never had a non-DSLR camera until I dropped photography somehow.
I was typing this on my smartphone and pressed the "post " button before posting.. sorry

I can't see the advantages of a DSLR over a mirrorless. A DSLR has to have prism and a mirror. The mechanism to actuate the mirror is perforce delicate and cumbersome and a lot of thoughts should be given to reduce its vibrations. OTOH an electronic viewfinder "sees" and shows what the actual sensor sees at all time, no mechanical intervention required. Yet the resistance is strong, even manufacturers have made some form factor and design clues to the DSLR's.. For exemple the bump that DLSRs must have to house the prism .. There is no need for this, simply wire the sensor to the viewfinder through of course some electronics but you get the point. In my estimation , mirrorless will present better performances than DSLR in a few years if they aren't today. Think about it this way. Any DSLR worth their "Pro" or "advanced" monikers ... must have a mirror lockup feature. Video even requires that the mirror be locked. Mirrorless cameras have no mirror and no vibration-creating mechanism. aside from perhaps the shutter. They're the future of photography. DLSR will slowly vanish.
Once the pros and the staunchest of all, the amateurs with Pro pretensions, who like to be called "Prosumers" , some of them are indeed good photographers but a substantial number of those people, are equipment fetishist, similar in that to many audiophiles. They have tens of thousands of dollars in lenses, bodies and accessories ... just like the audiophiles with... their shrine ... Once it's clearly perceived that the mirrorless are superior, I believe we may not see DSLR any more ...

 

[Ron Texas]

The detailed info at the CIPA site is worth a look.

CIPA numbers on camera shipments.

Low end DSLR body+kit lens might be the last refuge for DSLRs.

My view is different. I think low end dslr+kit lense will be the first to be eliminated while high end DSLR's will continue for some time. At least at Nikon the low end DSLR's are being discontinued while new high end DSLR's are being introduced. These low end DSLR's are not being replaced by mirrorless cameras as fast as they are retired. It's more about the average person being satisfied with ever improving mobile phone cameras. Sony has some great cameras and is luring Nikon shooters away.

 

[Sal1950]

With Mr & Mrs Sixpack all taking pictures with their phones today, there's very little to start them on the hobby of photography.

 

[Soniclife]

I started photography in my early teens on my father’s Canon mirrorless ... err... rangefinder 35 mm camera. I dreamed of a DSLR and when the time came, I graduated to a proper DSLR, a Nikkormat, IIRC. Never had a non-DSLR camera until I dropped photography somehow.
I was typing this on my smartphone and pressed the "post " button before posting.. sorry

I can't see the advantages of a DSLR over a mirrorless. A DSLR has to have prism and a mirror. The mechanism to actuate the mirror is perforce delicate and cumbersome and a lot of thoughts should be given to reduce its vibrations. OTOH an electronic viewfinder "sees" and shows what the actual sensor sees at all time, no mechanical intervention required. Yet the resistance is strong, even manufacturers have made some form factor and design clues to the DSLR's.. For exemple the bump that DLSRs must have to house the prism .. There is no need for this, simply wire the sensor to the viewfinder through of course some electronics but you get the point. In my estimation , mirrorless will present better performances than DSLR in a few years if they aren't today. Think about it this way. Any DSLR worth their "Pro" or "advanced" monikers ... must have a mirror lockup feature. Video even requires that the mirror be locked. Mirrorless cameras have no mirror and no vibration-creating mechanism. aside from perhaps the shutter. They're the future of photography. DLSR will slowly vanish.
Once the pros and the staunchest of all, the amateurs with Pro pretensions, who like to be called "Prosumers" , some of them are indeed good photographers but a substantial number of those people, are equipment fetishist, similar in that to many audiophiles. They have tens of thousands of dollars in lenses, bodies and accessories ... just like the audiophiles with... their shrine ... Once it's clearly perceived that the mirrorless are superior, I believe we may not see DSLR any more ...

All that is true, unless you need all the subject tracking and auto focus you can get, where currently DSLR rules, though mirrorless has some trick modes that help it fight back. I'd don't need it so I don't have a DSLR.

 

[Soniclife]

My view is different. I think low end dslr+kit lense will be the first to be eliminated while high end DSLR's will continue for some time.

Agreed, I don't see high end going anytime soon, if ever. Do they continue to invest in mirror r&d or let them stagnate? The sensors will continue to get better regardless.

 

[FrantzM]

All that is true, unless you need all the subject tracking and auto focus you can get, where currently DSLR rules, though mirrorless has some trick modes that help it fight back. I'd don't need it so I don't have a DSLR.

The DSLRs have the circuitry and software for those features. DSLRs have no inherent Design advantage over mirrorless. The contrary is true however.

 

[ElNino]

All that is true, unless you need all the subject tracking and auto focus you can get, where currently DSLR rules, though mirrorless has some trick modes that help it fight back. I'd don't need it so I don't have a DSLR.

In the last few years, it's the other way around, especially with face/eye tracking. Low end DSLRs still struggle to do face tracking as well as your average cell phone, whereas the latest crop of mirrorless has gotten very, very good. Auto focus is mostly a wash in terms of speed now (I'd give a slight advantage to DSLRs), but accuracy wise it's no contest at this point for mirrorless.

I'm with Ron Texas, I think the low-end DSLR market is at death's door. There really isn't a good target market to sell these to any more. Through-the-lens focusing on low-end DSLRs feels like a downgrade to most users looking to upgrade from cell phones, and live view focusing is not as good of an experience as comparable mirrorless.

 

[milw50717]

Here's a thing. I bought my Nikon D600 at Costco when it was newly released and at that time there was a sizeable display of different cameras. I was in the same Costco yesterday and they were selling just a couple of models - a Canon low end and a point and press, autofocus everything. A person looking at the Canon asked a sales rep who was stocking a nearby shelf and he said there was really no demand for them. It may be a seasonal thing, but I too suspect that the low-end will disappear before the high-end models.

 

[Ron Texas]

The DSLRs have the circuitry and software for those features. DSLRs have no inherent Design advantage over mirrorless. The contrary is true however.

No inherent design advantage, none, zero not one? Prove it. All I know is when I pick up a Z6 and look through the viewfinder I find it much harder to compose rapidly than when using my D850. There are technical issues, but to avoid starting a war with mirrorless camera owners, I will not go into that. The last time I mentioned a factual problem they all got upset with me.

 

[RayDunzl]

Will the professional mirrorless cameras have sound effects so we know they are there?

 

[q3cpma]

If I could find a good compact camera for 200-300€ and without any Wi-Fi/Bluetooth bullshit, I'd be happy. Same with TVs, you only get smart bullshit if you want quality.

 

[JeffS7444]

Fewer units sold, with emphasis on higher-end, higher-margin products sounds about like what I'm seeing.

I think sheer momentum will carry the Canon EF- and Nikon F-mount systems for awhile longer, though they're effectively legacy products now. Exotic and costly lenses in those mounts ought to continue to hold their value as they're readily adaptable to other systems.

No doubt the world's love affair with mobile devices has a lot to do with the huge decline in sales, but maybe there's also a collective sense that digital cameras made several years ago are still really good. Maybe people are also making the association between lifestyle choices and environmental change?

 

[JeffS7444]

If I could find a good compact camera for 200-300€ and without any Wi-Fi/Bluetooth bullshit, I'd be happy.

This?
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/869238-REG/Sony_DSC_RX100_Digital_Camera.html

 

[restorer-john]

I long since accepted the fact that my cameras are capable of much better pictures than this operator (me) is able to achieve. The less I use them compounds that issue.

A bit like $20,000 speakers hooked up to a cheap amplifier- you'll never hear (see) what they are capable of. It's also a time thing. A massive hole in listening and photography happens when you have two teenage boys.

It's ironic that with a cupboard full of DSLRs, the camera on my bench is a tiny little Canon Ixus for electronics closeups. It's simply a better option.

 

[Blumlein 88]

The curse of fairly good smartphone cams. I've a now older DSLR which is still preferred for best quality. But I always have the phone and it is not just good enough usually more than good enough for photographic needs (which isn't the same as wants). Same with scanners. I've one of the fairly nice Canon photoscanners. For anything short of negative or most serious photoscanning, the various scanner apps and a closeup photo on the phone does fine.

 

[q3cpma]

This?
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/869238-REG/Sony_DSC_RX100_Digital_Camera.html

Thanks, it looks nice. Actually bought it, I've been burned too much by stuff not being sold anymore. Especially Sansa's rockbox compatible Clips.

 

[Soniclife]

Will the professional mirrorless cameras have sound effects so we know they are there?

The shutter mechanisms are not that quiet, louder than the shutters in DSLRs, and need to fire more. Unless you put them into electronic shutter mode, then they are silent.

 

[JoachimStrobel]

I started photography in my early teens on my father’s Canon mirrorless ... err... rangefinder 35 mm camera. I dreamed of a DSLR and when the time came, I graduated to a proper DSLR, a Nikkormat, IIRC. Never had a non-DSLR camera until I dropped photography somehow.
I was typing this on my smartphone and pressed the "post " button before posting.. sorry

I can't see the advantages of a DSLR over a mirrorless. A DSLR has to have prism and a mirror. The mechanism to actuate the mirror is perforce delicate and cumbersome and a lot of thoughts should be given to reduce its vibrations. OTOH an electronic viewfinder "sees" and shows what the actual sensor sees at all time, no mechanical intervention required. Yet the resistance is strong, even manufacturers have made some form factor and design clues to the DSLR's.. For exemple the bump that DLSRs must have to house the prism .. There is no need for this, simply wire the sensor to the viewfinder through of course some electronics but you get the point. In my estimation , mirrorless will present better performances than DSLR in a few years if they aren't today. Think about it this way. Any DSLR worth their "Pro" or "advanced" monikers ... must have a mirror lockup feature. Video even requires that the mirror be locked. Mirrorless cameras have no mirror and no vibration-creating mechanism. aside from perhaps the shutter. They're the future of photography. DLSR will slowly vanish.
Once the pros and the staunchest of all, the amateurs with Pro pretensions, who like to be called "Prosumers" , some of them are indeed good photographers but a substantial number of those people, are equipment fetishist, similar in that to many audiophiles. They have tens of thousands of dollars in lenses, bodies and accessories ... just like the audiophiles with... their shrine ... Once it's clearly perceived that the mirrorless are superior, I believe we may not see DSLR any more ...

Just like to say that the EVF shows you the world as 8bit jpeg after auto or fixed color correction. I have such a EVF, it is fun, but not the real thing.