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Why does this thong cost so much? Is it using exotic parts? Hard to design?
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Auralic LEO GX DAC Clock Review
- Thread starter amirm
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I attempted to post a link to this thread on a popular U.K. forum it was immediately deleted, obviously naive of me , but I imagined that the whole purpose of forums was the dissemination of knowledge, clearly not!
Keith
Keith
This reminds me of a contentious thread I participated in on a pro audio forum.
Antelope Audio makes a variety of ADC-DAC units and external clocks. They were one of the first marketers of “atomic clocks”. They always implied big sonic benefits to their external clocks while being careful with the language of the claims.
Anyway, as they do, they announced three new products: converter, external clock 1, and external “super clock 2.”
Then they got a big name producer to declare (paraphrase) “the improvement in sound from the new converter was amazing, but when I added the SuperClock my jaw literally dropped...I have never heard audio this brilliant, literally a night-and-day difference!”
A number of us readers were skeptical leading to an acrimonious debate between the celebrity producer and us cranky, Grammy-lacking loser trolls.
A manufactures rep was on the thread trying to stay nuetral. Finally he decided to prepare some “loopback” files to compare.
There were four files:
1 - original music
2 - looped back through plain DAC-ADC
3 - looped back with same converter clocked to external clock
4 - looped back through same converter with SuperClock.
Files were uploaded for anyone to compare and a long session of ABX testing (software) began, with people posting screenshots of their results.
I was not able to distinguish the original from any of the looped back versions!
So I had to bow out. But amazingly one person could consistently distinguish all files from each other! According to the screen shots of their test results. Assuming they didn’t cheat (it would have been easy but what’s the point) this was an extraordinary result.
This persons comment was that part of this was they were listening in their mastering studio on their $40k speakers and sooper audio path setup.
Most of the rest of us were listening in recording studios or home studios with much cheaper setups.
I actually did try it in our other room where there some better monitors for a while, and was able to distinguish between original and copies at slightly higher than chance. But this took huge concentration, and I didn’t even bother trying to distinguish between the different clocked versions.
Even the results of the golden ears champ said nothing about subject sound quality, they just were able to distinguish the files consistently.
I am haunted by this to this day.
Antelope Audio makes a variety of ADC-DAC units and external clocks. They were one of the first marketers of “atomic clocks”. They always implied big sonic benefits to their external clocks while being careful with the language of the claims.
Anyway, as they do, they announced three new products: converter, external clock 1, and external “super clock 2.”
Then they got a big name producer to declare (paraphrase) “the improvement in sound from the new converter was amazing, but when I added the SuperClock my jaw literally dropped...I have never heard audio this brilliant, literally a night-and-day difference!”
A number of us readers were skeptical leading to an acrimonious debate between the celebrity producer and us cranky, Grammy-lacking loser trolls.
A manufactures rep was on the thread trying to stay nuetral. Finally he decided to prepare some “loopback” files to compare.
There were four files:
1 - original music
2 - looped back through plain DAC-ADC
3 - looped back with same converter clocked to external clock
4 - looped back through same converter with SuperClock.
Files were uploaded for anyone to compare and a long session of ABX testing (software) began, with people posting screenshots of their results.
I was not able to distinguish the original from any of the looped back versions!
So I had to bow out. But amazingly one person could consistently distinguish all files from each other! According to the screen shots of their test results. Assuming they didn’t cheat (it would have been easy but what’s the point) this was an extraordinary result.
This persons comment was that part of this was they were listening in their mastering studio on their $40k speakers and sooper audio path setup.
Most of the rest of us were listening in recording studios or home studios with much cheaper setups.
I actually did try it in our other room where there some better monitors for a while, and was able to distinguish between original and copies at slightly higher than chance. But this took huge concentration, and I didn’t even bother trying to distinguish between the different clocked versions.
Even the results of the golden ears champ said nothing about subject sound quality, they just were able to distinguish the files consistently.
I am haunted by this to this day.
It has two "temperature-controlled rubidium atomic reference clocks". If they are not using second hand rubidium atomic clocks scarped from telco, those are not cheap to build. I am not aware any commercial rubidium atomic clock generating frequencies required by audio devices. If they take a standard clock with 1Mhz / 10Mhz output and added additional PLL generator to generate required frequency, the waves will look not pretty.
I wonder what's the point though when there's like 10 blokes in this world who possess the gear to be able to discern a difference focusing so hard on the music that they might risk a stroke. If that can help you to sleep better your gear is certainly good enough to produce mixes that will please over 99.99% of us.
Waiting a minute....the whole experience was or supposed to be designed to proof "the improvement in sound" by adding an external clock. However, the results did not support that. Also if they all agreed on improving such minor jitter can drastically improve sound, why they could not agree to buy a new amp like benchmark which suppose to give much bigger improvement? Meh! Benchmark amp is too clinical and not musical enough, it is a piece of junk. I fixed that 0.5ns jitter will make better sounds....They are in a vortex of conflicts.
What if .... someone tells you:
"""
I cannot save you as you are deaf and blind....
Do not need to mention masterclock, changing the clock cable is a day and night difference.
You just need to connect the cable to an oscilloscope and check eye diagram, you can see how much jitter it has
"""
I do not have oscilloscope by my hands....can someone test it?
"""
I cannot save you as you are deaf and blind....
Do not need to mention masterclock, changing the clock cable is a day and night difference.
You just need to connect the cable to an oscilloscope and check eye diagram, you can see how much jitter it has
"""
I do not have oscilloscope by my hands....can someone test it?
Hi
I know for a fact the Auralic Stack (StReamer, DAC, Clock) is no match for the dCS stack or the Trinity Reference DAC Stack.. The Auralic stack is good for its price but one needs to understand that there is no way, any stack costing around $20,000, will ever surpass the over $100,000 dCS stack or the Trinity Stack :Trinity Power DAC ($49,000), TRINITY Golden Reference Media PC & Transport (US$ 42,000) and TRINITY Golden Reference Power Supply Unit ($22,400.00). It is the best Digital I have heard ....
Or so I thought until I heard the Trinity trio in its own rack: the TRINITY RACK with Touchscreen and gold-plated Spacers at $59,500...
When I heard the Trinity combo in its own rack (for a total of $210,000), I understood why some reviewers say that Digital has arrived. To my ears it is now shockingly close, but not yet equal, to the sound I get from my TT , the Derenville VPM 2010-1 which cost without cartridge about $450,000.
When you factor all this in, the Trinity combinaison, is a screaming Bargain.
In that light the Auralic combo at about $22,000, is the proverbial Steal of the Century!!!
P.S. None of these prices are invented. Products are real and prices are MSRP. If you want the best .. then ...
I know for a fact the Auralic Stack (StReamer, DAC, Clock) is no match for the dCS stack or the Trinity Reference DAC Stack.. The Auralic stack is good for its price but one needs to understand that there is no way, any stack costing around $20,000, will ever surpass the over $100,000 dCS stack or the Trinity Stack :Trinity Power DAC ($49,000), TRINITY Golden Reference Media PC & Transport (US$ 42,000) and TRINITY Golden Reference Power Supply Unit ($22,400.00). It is the best Digital I have heard ....
Or so I thought until I heard the Trinity trio in its own rack: the TRINITY RACK with Touchscreen and gold-plated Spacers at $59,500...
When I heard the Trinity combo in its own rack (for a total of $210,000), I understood why some reviewers say that Digital has arrived. To my ears it is now shockingly close, but not yet equal, to the sound I get from my TT , the Derenville VPM 2010-1 which cost without cartridge about $450,000.
When you factor all this in, the Trinity combinaison, is a screaming Bargain.
In that light the Auralic combo at about $22,000, is the proverbial Steal of the Century!!!
P.S. None of these prices are invented. Products are real and prices are MSRP. If you want the best .. then ...
Last edited:
Shadrach
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I don't doubt the prices are right, but the bit above, it's meant to be a joke right?
carlosmante
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Lapsus digiti.
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Short paraphrase:
I didn't know how good it sounded until I saw the price tag.
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Antelope seems to be shifting much focus to the audiophile market. I know they sell a lot of product in Europe and Asia, as do most audiophile companies nowadays, even ones based purely in North America.
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At least dCS manufactures everything in the UK. I believe they manufacture their own PCB boards and transformers and everything. Though technically the transistors and other tiny parts that make up said PCB boards are probably originally made in factories in Taiwan.
Unrelated question to the topic but do any of the modern resistor and capacitor manufactures actually make product in their respective countries anymore? I know 20 years ago if you bought a Sony CRT you could pretty much guarantee every part inside down to the last resistor was made in Japan but I doubt that's the case anymore.
Unrelated question to the topic but do any of the modern resistor and capacitor manufactures actually make product in their respective countries anymore? I know 20 years ago if you bought a Sony CRT you could pretty much guarantee every part inside down to the last resistor was made in Japan but I doubt that's the case anymore.
Since the only thing we connect to the rest of the system is the analogue output of the DAC if this is not improved sound quality can not be.
Even if the eye-pattern is different it is different by an inconsequential amount if the output of the DAC is unaffected.
Classic case of a fool and his money are easily parted, common in hifi IME.
I wonder if the HDMI cable is only for control, or if they use it to send superclock directly, as that could explain why performance doesn't degrade in any measurable form?
Jitter in consumer audio reminds me of the Y2K bug, millions spent on a problem that was mostly not there, and was blown way out of proportion.
Almost all the small studios I know that bought those antelope clocks, sold them after the confirmation bias phase wore out.
Maybe, just maybe if you have an old adat machine (tape transport) with dying power supply and unstable clock, it will help to have one of these around. But using today's equipment, I just don't see it being useful at all.
Or if you have to slave multiple digital sources to a master with a crappy clock. Usually your master (console or recorder) has a very good clock, so again not an issue.
Something that I've seen happen is bad implementation of word clock in studios, where they connect the equipment out-in-out-in etc... in series, and this causes a delay in the word clock signal and after 5-8 devices, the word clock is out of phase and there are problems, and then they buy these master clocks and connect every piece to individual outs and they go.... wow! Much better, so it must be the clock, but the problem was in the way the devices were connected and the solution is using much cheaper "T" connectors so every device is in parallel and only terminated once.
Basically user error.
Jitter in consumer audio reminds me of the Y2K bug, millions spent on a problem that was mostly not there, and was blown way out of proportion.
Almost all the small studios I know that bought those antelope clocks, sold them after the confirmation bias phase wore out.
Maybe, just maybe if you have an old adat machine (tape transport) with dying power supply and unstable clock, it will help to have one of these around. But using today's equipment, I just don't see it being useful at all.
Or if you have to slave multiple digital sources to a master with a crappy clock. Usually your master (console or recorder) has a very good clock, so again not an issue.
Something that I've seen happen is bad implementation of word clock in studios, where they connect the equipment out-in-out-in etc... in series, and this causes a delay in the word clock signal and after 5-8 devices, the word clock is out of phase and there are problems, and then they buy these master clocks and connect every piece to individual outs and they go.... wow! Much better, so it must be the clock, but the problem was in the way the devices were connected and the solution is using much cheaper "T" connectors so every device is in parallel and only terminated once.
Basically user error.
A supercar to respect the limits, a superyacht to stay at the marina, a mansion with rooms you never step a foot into and a hifi gear that surpass 10 times the acoustic capabilities of your hearing. Pure happiness
Thing is , the gears that are truly capable of such such do not cost superyacht money. case in point: Topping D10 vs TOTAL DAC ....
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