Schiit Freya S Preamplifier Review

[LTig]

As seen here: https://pinkfishmedia.net/forum/threads/alps-potentiometers-gain-and-distortion.68076/ distortion is best with some attenuators when there is no attenuation.

It's not a potentiometer. This is a stepped attenuator, so there are only fixed resistors and relays. It cannot have such problems.

Music remains a great tell tale of product ability, and should always be part of every test.

Need to to do a DBT then, knowing how unreliable the human hearing sense is. But I'm very sure that no one would be able to hear any differences in a DBT between the Freya and a wire. In typical home environments THD and noise are inaudible.

 

[amirm]

@amirm, can you easily produce THD+N vs. output level at a fixed input, say 4V or a bit less, for the 0dB mode?

Sure. Will do later.

 

[Matias]

And 32 tone of all 3 modes, please! Thanks in advance.

 

[LTig]

showing my ignorance here, but why is this the case?

For passive and most active devices (resistors, capacitors, transistors) THD (if measurable at all) always rises with voltage. If there is no distortion at high voltage there can't be distortion at lower voltages.

Noise on the other side is constant for a given gain structure so SNR rises with voltage.

 

[twofires]

This may be a spectacularly silly question on my part, but other than the remote, is there anything about passive mode that requires switching it on?

Also, I wish they made this with a headphone amp - headphone amps with multiple analogue inputs seem quite rare.

 

[amirm]

And 32 tone of all 3 modes, please! Thanks in advance.

I have a ton of other gear to measure including a bunch of speakers. Do you really need these tests?

 

[restorer-john]

It is the proper industry term (design language). Would you prefer for us to not say capacitor and instead say charge storage device?

No, just call them condensers as they were always known. Capacitors is such a modern term (1920s).

(Named by Volta in 1782 from the Italian word 'condensatore' as they could store more charge than an isolated conductor)

 

[stereo coffee]

It's not a potentiometer. This is a stepped attenuator, so there are only fixed resistors and relays. It cannot have such problems.

Really ? Listening to it though, IMO would reveal exactly its ability, but not at full volume. A really good test is listening first and measuring to correlate measurements to be meaningful - at the opposite end of the scale, Yes at very low output level.

 

[LTig]

This may be a spectacularly silly question on my part, but other than the remote, is there anything about passive mode that requires switching it on?

Also, I wish they made this with a headphone amp - headphone amps with multiple analogue inputs seem quite rare.

I'd say for using the volume control. The relays need power to switch.

 

[LTig]

Really ?

Yes, see the 3rd paragraph of the review: "The volume control is stepped attenuator and you hear the chatter of the relays as you adjust them."

Listening to it though, IMO would reveal exactly its ability, but not at full volume.

Listening will not reveal anything at this high level of performance.

A really good test is listening first and measuring to correlate measurements to be meaningful - at the opposite end of the scale, Yes at very low output level.

@amirm prefers to listen after measuring (if at all). For a public review I'd do the same - don't want to make a fool of myself.

 

[stereo coffee]

Yes, see the 3rd paragraph of the review: "The volume control is stepped attenuator and you hear the chatter of the relays as you adjust them."

Listening will not reveal anything at this high level of performance.

@amirm prefers to listen after measuring (if at all). For a public review I'd do the same - don't want to make a fool of myself.

The problem is the present test's are somewhat meaningless and unrealistic, as they reveal nothing about the attenuation characteristics, or how the product being tested reproduces actual music at lower volume settings. As example Jan Garbarek's Dresden has incredible depth of recording to particularly Manu's drums.

Hand's up anyone who always listen's at full volume? , and hand's up anyone who never ever listen's to music as we know it, with such or similar equipment ?

Whereas listening at a low to comfortable level then measuring at that same level, indeed would reveal if this product should be considered or recommended for purchase.

I suspect a moment where measurements at lower levels, will conflict with what is being heard, & may surprise and I am hoping may lead to a reevaluation, of how tests on this type of equipment, is done in the future.

 

[Hemi-Demon]

Excellent review. Seems a waste of a great design to only have ONE balanced output, versus two se outputs.

 

[beefkabob]

The problem is the present test's are somewhat meaningless and unrealistic, as they reveal nothing about the attenuation characteristics, or how the product being tested reproduces actual music at lower volume settings.

Dude. Duuuuuude. Listening tests are, by and large, unproductive and usually misleading. If you have 82 messages here, you should know that by now.

 

[amirm]

The problem is the present test's are somewhat meaningless and unrealistic, as they reveal nothing about the attenuation characteristics, or how the product being tested reproduces actual music at lower volume settings.

What volume setting should we test for? I can't do all of them.

 

[direstraitsfan98]

I'd love to see how this measures https://www.akitika.com/akitikastore.html#PR1024WAYS

 

[stereo coffee]

What volume setting should we test for? I can't do all of them.

Thank you @amirm, 11am ( volume as a timepiece ) should do.

 

[amirm]

Thank you @amirm, 11am ( volume as a timepiece ) should do.

That wouldn't be the same volume on each preamp. I am asking what target gain we should test at.

 

[direstraitsfan98]

Max

 

[JohnYang1997]

It's not a potentiometer. This is a stepped attenuator, so there are only fixed resistors and relays. It cannot have such problems.

Need to to do a DBT then, knowing how unreliable the human hearing sense is. But I'm very sure that no one would be able to hear any differences in a DBT between the Freya and a wire. In typical home environments THD and noise are inaudible.

They can as well. The resistors have to have very low voltage coefficient to have no measurable distortion with apx555.

 

[LTig]

The problem is the present test's are somewhat meaningless and unrealistic, as they reveal nothing about the attenuation characteristics,

See the graph "Channel Imbalance vs. Volume Position". What else do you want to know?

or how the product being tested reproduces actual music at lower volume settings.

In passive mode only the output resistance plays a role in combination with cable capacity and input impedance of the power amp connected.

In active mode volume was not at max, neither at low gain (@amirm: "I was surprised when I selected "0 dB" active mode and it produced fair bit of gain at max volume. So I had to dial that back to still get 4 volts out".) nor at high gain, obviously.

Just looking at the graph "Intermodulation distortion" (IMD vs input level) we do not know in which stage IMD is created (before and/or after the volume control) - it may depend on volume position or not. THD and noise on the other hand are obviously mostly created after the volume control because they are higher in high gain mode where the volume position must have been set lower than in low gain mode. So we can safely conclude that IMD is created behind the volume control as well (IMD goes with THD). Then it is safe to assume that both IMD and THD are lower for low volume (see posting #44 why this is the case) while noise is constant. Does this answer your question?

As example Jan Garbarek's Dresden has incredible depth of recording to particularly Manu's drums.

Hand's up anyone who always listen's at full volume? , and hand's up anyone who never ever listen's to music as we know it, with such or similar equipment ?

Whereas listening at a low to comfortable level then measuring at that same level, indeed would reveal if this product should be considered or recommended for purchase.

Uncontrolled listening is unreliable, that's a proven fact, unfortunately.

I suspect a moment where measurements at lower levels, will conflict with what is being heard, & may surprise and I am hoping may lead to a reevaluation, of how tests on this type of equipment, is done in the future.

If measurements conflict with uncontrolled sighted subjective listenings we know what to trust.