Announcement: ASR Will Be Measuring Speakers!

[Vintage57]

Amir

You must have balls, and faith in mankind.

I hope that those that can will help with their contributions.

Well done

 

[Hifihedgehog]

I've always wanted a place that could become the InnerFidelity/Reference Audio Analyzer of speaker measurements. Thanks for granting this wish! I'm hoping to see studio monitors measured especially some of the usual subjects from Adam Audio and Focal (A7X, Shape 65, etc.).

 

[napilopez]

It would be good to see how subjective impressions match up with objective measurements, but unless the listening tests are blind, they won't have much scientific merit, due to expectation bias etc. You could eliminate one source of expectation bias at least by doing your listening tests before seeing any measurements of the particular speakers you're testing, so your subjective impressions aren't influenced by objective measurements (the same goes for your DAC/amp etc listening tests).

Thanks so much for expanding your tests to speakers, it's a monumental project that will be of huge benefit to us consumers.

I agree that listening before measuring would probably be best, but I don't think Amir should be aiming for that because it can't really be done with one person and it's a huge time sink.

Moreover, there's expectation bias any way you cut it. From my experience measuring speakers, either you risk making your listening impressions match objective data, as you mentioned, or you can fall into the trap of doing the opposite and try to make your analysis of the objective data fit your listening impressions.

Even with full anechoic data, there's still room for interpreting the graphs and focusing on different details. Of course, the great thing about amir making this data public is that we can interpret the data for ourselves too

Just FYI, the types of speaker measurements Amir is proposing to make have a very good correlation with listening tests.

While true, the correlations are with blind listening tests of multiple subjects, which I think is what bobboo was getting at. But yes, overall impressions should be in agreement. While I've had a few moments where on and off-axis data didn't seem to line up with my impressions, the vast majority of the time everything I hear can be explained by frequency response graphs or SPL limits.

 

[soundwave76]

Hey @Ilkka Rissanen how about sending a pair of Genelec SAM monitors for testing, for example 8351b for starters?

 

[fredoamigo]

will there be a ranking as for electronics? in what form? a gradual objective spinorama index?

 

[PierreV]

Moreover, there's expectation bias any way you cut it. From my experience measuring speakers, either you risk making your listening impressions match objective data, as you mentioned, or you can fall into the trap of doing the opposite and try to make your analysis of the objective data fit your listening impressions.
.

This. 100%

I recently measured one of my pairs and noticed a room interaction, which I had just vaguely suspected previously. Now, I can't unhear it.

 

[starfly]

You must have more money and time than you have sense, but WOW, this is great! Will be great to get more objective data on speakers and get rid of all the subjective impressions of speaker reviewers.

I recently went down this rabbit hole as I was in the market for some speakers and it was hard to find much measurements data on the speakers that were within my budget. I ended up with the Revel Performa3 F206 though, as those measured very well within the listening window and I still enjoy them every time I listen to them. Very neutral, very clear, very clean.

 

[RickSanchez]

I recently measured one of my pairs and noticed a room interaction, which I had just vaguely suspected previously. Now, I can't unhear it.

You could try making a minor adjustment to your listening environment ...

 

[VeerK]

This is phenomenal news, Very very very excited!

 

[Blur]

Wow, so cool and useful!

 

[ribosradagast]

The most exciting news of the year!

 

[Dana reed]

Who's going to ship some 30.7s over to you?

 

[Dimitri]

Sound of what? The speaker playing music in a room? If so, this just does not work.

I do plan on performing listening tests however.

Ha! I was afraid you were gonna say that , but at the same time not asking the question would feel worse.

In that case, I can't wait to read about how your aural exprerience correlates with the measured results.
Happy measuring!!!

 

[FrantzM]

Follow up on my previous post.

It is interesting to note that alongside Amir, there are others willing to spend time and money to test/review audio products. We have a few people doing this here at ASR (@solderdude why not the link to your wonderful headphones reviews/test in your signature?? .. whats's up with that ???? .... , seriously, this is needed.. PM coming up) .
Audio reviewing as we knew is being challenged: Speaking about myself , 5 years ago, I would have believed that $5000 was the entry price for an exceptional DAC. ASR has shown to all of us, that a $15,000 DAC can be thoroughly whupped by a $9 dongle!!! Can we expect to find the equivalent of such in the speaker world ?? Optimists like me, know, we shall.

 

[Darkweb]

How beautiful it will be when the measurements show some very expensive high-end speakers full of BS.
Thank you very much, Amir!

At least someone is willing to say the thing out loud.

If it doesn’t measure exactly like a market researched Harman, it will be sent to the guillotine. Taste be damned. There can be only one correct answer.

 

[LTig]

Great news. Can't wait to see the first measurements. May I suggest to start with a few speakers where there are already good measurements available, e.g. by Sound & Recording (German mag, but the graphs should be understandable). These are the models tested so far:

PS: Sent a few bucks to ease the investment.

 

[amirm]

will there be a ranking as for electronics? in what form? a gradual objective spinorama index?

I am working toward this as there is good published research as well.

 

[amirm]

It would be good to see how subjective impressions match up with objective measurements, but unless the listening tests are blind, they won't have much scientific merit, due to expectation bias etc.

How much time I have to do this, I don't know. But my goal was to test blind and use my youngest son who has excellent high frequency hearing (and overall sensitivity). I pursued help to get an automated turntable to switch speakers quickly but got too much for me to handle. If someone can help build this, it would be great. It is just a simple table that you put 3 speakers on, and it rotates them into position using external control. My thought is to limit it to smaller speakers right now. Once there, I can put an acoustically transparent curtain in front of it and perform ABC tests while someone else listens. I can use my dedicated theater which is extremely quiet and has the space to hold such contraption.

Failing this, I just plan to turn on the speaker and give it a quick listen in my main system area/lab. This would be a casual test but sufficient for people who say, "did you listen?"

 

[amirm]

Do you plan to contact manufacturers to see if they will supply samples?

In general, my preference as with electronics is to wait for them to offer their gear to be tested. Or better yet, members send in theirs. Going and asking for speakers to test can set expectations for a positive review. That said, as with electronics, I hope some products do come from manufacturers.

 

[amirm]

Any idea which speaker will be the one to be featured on the 1st review? This is so exciting!

Well, I was hoping it would be JBL 305P powered monitors. I was "smart" and ran an XLR cable through the central column for powered speakers. I was dumb to not think that I would also need to run AC power the same way! Duh! So I dangled an AC cable on the side, and sat there watching it in the cold garage for an hour to make sure it doesn't tangle. Well, all the moving caused the extension cable to lose connection with it and a bunch of measurements were just noise. I was hoping the Klippel software could deal with that but could not. It generated totally garbage data. So today's project is to fish an AC cable up the post. There is no room to do that with a normal extension cable as the head won't fit there. Will have to cut the head off, fish it up, and then put it back down. All the while making sure the harness is not too thick to fit the slot in the platform.

While it was running, I was impressed by how smooth its curve was compared to the JBL Control 1 speaker. Wish I had not lost the data so I could share it with you all.

Anyway, stand by until I get that out. I am hoping it will help refine reporting, analysis and workflow. As such, I won't be offering it as "review" as much as a measurement put forward for discussion.