That may be, but among the die-hard "measurements mean nothing to my ears" crowd, even a million tests wouldn't shake them one single bit.
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Sennheiser HDV-820 USB DAC & Headphone Amp Review
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solderdude
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Tks
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Come on son...
What is this? You would think (for any that have seen video's of Senn's factory in Germany, and their testing bench and chambers) this sort of nonsense wouldn't be something that ever comes out of these people's factory.
I don't get it, is that whole company simply inept, or do they have a different machination on what constitutes as "good engineering"? Will audio ever come up with a body that will standardize engineering principles for goodness sake? If a company like Senn can put out stuff like this (though it's not their first time with blunders, check out the HD800 and that disgusting treble peak, that is somewhat rectified in the HD800S that sacrificed some bass performance to remedy it) you can imagine why things are pretty bad with other companies (until recently when folks are starting to take performance seriously).
Oh and anyone defending this, I just want to hear the justification for that ATROCIOUS output impedance, and that horrendous channel performance over time. Everything else you can toss up to "that tube sound tho". Not these two things though, and NOT from someone the size of Sennheiser.
Can you imagine how that $50,000 headphone+amp setup performs that they sometimes like to demo? With tubes no less..
What is this? You would think (for any that have seen video's of Senn's factory in Germany, and their testing bench and chambers) this sort of nonsense wouldn't be something that ever comes out of these people's factory.
I don't get it, is that whole company simply inept, or do they have a different machination on what constitutes as "good engineering"? Will audio ever come up with a body that will standardize engineering principles for goodness sake? If a company like Senn can put out stuff like this (though it's not their first time with blunders, check out the HD800 and that disgusting treble peak, that is somewhat rectified in the HD800S that sacrificed some bass performance to remedy it) you can imagine why things are pretty bad with other companies (until recently when folks are starting to take performance seriously).
Oh and anyone defending this, I just want to hear the justification for that ATROCIOUS output impedance, and that horrendous channel performance over time. Everything else you can toss up to "that tube sound tho". Not these two things though, and NOT from someone the size of Sennheiser.
Can you imagine how that $50,000 headphone+amp setup performs that they sometimes like to demo? With tubes no less..
OP
- Thread Starter
- #64
Someone asked for safety/regulatory certification. There is a big label on the bottom with every kind of certification you want. 
Oh good, at least I don't have to worry about the amp frying my head while enjoying 88dB of SINAD.Someone asked for safety/regulatory certification. There is a big label on the bottom with every kind of certification you want.
Nango
Major Contributor
88dB SINAD is best case, don't forget!
At $2,400 the only discussion should be about how spectacularly good this thing is, not dissecting mediocrity. It's sad to see a company like Sennheiser make this and sell it for $2,400, however I suspect there are enough people who will swallow the idea that something made by Sennheiser costing that much just has to be brilliant and buy it. With higher impedance headphones I suspect audible performance will be fine, but that's true of equipment at a tenth of the price and less.
Thanks.
No consequence was my understanding, but knowing you know rather more than me I was interested of the was something I'd missed.
Nango
Major Contributor
If Sennheiser meant to make 43Ohm on it's flagship beyerdynamic tops it on it's €999 amp with 120 Ohm: https://www.beyerdynamic.de/a-2.html
Seriously now, I do think they know what they do!!!!
Seriously now, I do think they know what they do!!!!
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solderdude
Grand Contributor
You should see the Beyerdynamic A20 amp... it has 100 Ohm output resistance.
Edit: Nango beat me to it.
The justification is that they took the easy design route, grabbed the TPA6120A (Topping uses it as well) and designed it to comply to spec sheets which recommends 40 Ohm (single ended and run on high voltage rails) and specify a minimum of 10 Ohm output R which it has directly on the output of the amp to ensure stability.
The higher output R is of no consequence for the intended headphone range. It is not intended as a universal amplifier acc to them but strangely enough have several types of outputs that can be used together. Their story is a bit lame.
I don't think it is worth more than 400 Euros. They are selling dreams just like most other high priced brands and have imaginative writers that make up the nice stories around it.
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Tks
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It's things like that, that give me pause in thinking they're doing any better with their high-end headphone products.
The only reason I'd ever care of getting an HD800 or any other high end headphone, is pretty much everything besides the sound. The differences are virtually all down the various FR and THD properties. Slap even a basic HD58X driver and I wouldn't care (heck i'd prefer it to that treble peak the HD800 has). The only reason that headphone is good is the insanely good ergonomics when I tested it for a week and a half. I love the cup size, and could wear the thing forever. But it feels like I'm paying only for that, and with a plastic build (which I think more makers should be doing instead of metal like Audeze and folks, with their disgustingly heavy cans) I think they could stand to drop the price a bit, or come out with an HD8XX or something.
I kid you not, I have Koss throwaway headphones that sound pretty much almost as good as any of the HDXXX line of headphones.
So when I see ultra expensive headphones, I want to see headway is distortion metrics (as many seem to buckle with bass, naturally as any speaker would itself in theory if the woofer was asked to perform the duties of sub bass, bass, mid, and treble representation). But I also want to see proper design like seen with the Meze Empyreans (virtually the best headphones in my book from the planar side of things, the erognomics trump even the HD800), the sound is good and all, but even there, I am paying for the build/shape (which is an easier pill to swallow as I can't find faults like I could with the HD800).
I find even by the standards of audio that price isn't much of a guide for headphone SQ. What's perhaps more disappointing in a way is that price doesn't even seem to tell you that much about build quality, at least an expensive product should have the decency to be well made and feel premium.
HD800's are very good. I prefer the Stax, but Sennheisser's are much more confortable and that amazing soundstage has not equal.
009s is amazing, best headphones I've ever listened to. You pay a lot, and get a lot. That amount of detail and speed is almost irreal. Amps is another story, probably the difference between the SR353x and BHSE will be very small, for sure it is with the expensive T8000. Don't believe that huge claims on the amps in the forums.
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Amongst other things yeah, I always see BHSE at the top to recommended list. But I don't see any measurements around. Try the 009s by any means.
Silvera
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These measurements don't surprise me, I have a topping DX3 pro and we all know how good that is for the cost but with the HD660S I prefer them straight from my midrange Samsung smartphone. I can imagine the measurements being quite poor but for whatever reason I prefer the sound out of the phone, it sounds a bit richer and better depth. I think this just proves to me that measurements don't really matter as long as the device can drive your headphones adequately. I mean look how much distortion you get from vinyl records and tube amplifiers but they sound great. I guess what I'm trying to say here is that pretty much any DAC/amp should sound fine but the problem here is the amount that is being asked for this HDV820.
I'm not very knowledgeable when it comes to audio but if I had to take a guess I'd say we're not as sensitive to all these distortions and imperfections as some might make us believe. Our brains are probably good at filtering out all the distortion and nasties.
I'm not very knowledgeable when it comes to audio but if I had to take a guess I'd say we're not as sensitive to all these distortions and imperfections as some might make us believe. Our brains are probably good at filtering out all the distortion and nasties.
Your assertions are interesting but at some point these tests become invaluable in the terms of finding the gems and in the terms of pointing out undesirable engineering. If you decided the source for your audio would you not use these tests? Anybody using decent hi-fi transducers would want a good source and get proper value for their money rather than support something that is obvious to tests as not desirable.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #80
Your samsung phone may have high output impedance and hence changes the response in a way you like. Then again I have an Samsung S8+ and no way does it sound as good DX3 Pro. It has anemic sound without good bass and dynamics with HD-650.
And no, Samsung is not quite poor unless you have measured it.
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