• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

No love for Magnepan???

Ron Texas

Master Contributor
Joined
Jun 10, 2018
Messages
6,084
Likes
8,918
Lol, exactly what my wife said when I 1st set them next to the Kef. "Why would you need a room divider next to your speakers?" :facepalm:
Joke aside, do you mean they are not as good as a speaker? If so, please let me know, I do want to know everything about them, especially their bad sides.
Just kidding around. Dipoles are different from direct radiators. Either you like them or you don't.
 
  • Like
Reactions: g29

watchnerd

Grand Contributor
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
Messages
12,449
Likes
10,409
Location
Seattle Area, USA
Just kidding around. Dipoles are different from direct radiators. Either you like them or you don't.

I had dipoles for a decade to earn my audiophile street cred.

I still haven't made my bones with horns yet, though. I guess I should do so while I still have a decent sized house and an acre of land with far away neighbors.
 

pozz

Слава Україні
Forum Donor
Editor
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
4,036
Likes
6,827
Does "energize a room" mean it's kinda like putting a bigger speaker in a room and it "energises a room" more than a smaller one not louder?
I meant that their sound is very dependant on the blend of reflective/direct sound, and that the radiation pattern from the panel design helps. As others have said, positioning is key. Magnepans are very much "room sound" speakers.
 

JeffS7444

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jul 21, 2019
Messages
2,347
Likes
3,509
I've heard the larger Maggies equipped with ribbon tweeters sounding very good, but my current apartment is too small for them. Meanwhile, I've been so pleased with my Linkwitz Plutos that I've become complacent with trying out other speakers, or even upgrading Pluto to LX-Mini.
 

MRC01

Major Contributor
Joined
Feb 5, 2019
Messages
3,425
Likes
4,030
Location
Pacific Northwest
...I've been wondered a while why Magnepan speakers rarely mentioned when good speakers topics came up. Almost in every other forums, Magnepan have been considered one of the best money to performance ratio if you have good enough amplifiers to drive them.
...
Could you guys give me some insights into this? Cheers.
I love my Magnepans. I bought a pair of 3.6/R 20 years ago and still listen to them daily. They sound fantastic, especially with natural acoustic music and voices. They also measure well if you set them up right in the room: flat frequency response from 30 Hz to 20 kHz, low distortion, and fast, even spectral decay.

Why aren't they more popular here? I have a few guesses:
  • They are impractical, requiring a medium-large dedicated listening room with speakers positioned away from walls & corners out in the room.
  • They don't play as loud as dynamic speakers that cost the same.
  • They have tight, clean bass but they don't do much below 30 Hz. So the explosions in your movies won't shake the room.
  • They are hard to measure properly, since near-field is not what you hear, and far-field is affected by the room. So their published measurements typically understate their best-case potential performance (when set up right) and people who trust measurements more than their ears don't like them.
 
Last edited:

watchnerd

Grand Contributor
Joined
Dec 8, 2016
Messages
12,449
Likes
10,409
Location
Seattle Area, USA
That's funny. :)
You know, you have to continue to use dipoles or you lose your audiophile street cred. In fact, you lose two audiophile penalty points if you discontinue use of dipoles for over a year.

Dave.

My Martin Logans are still in the shed so I can do a street cred power up boost refresh if needed.

But I need to find some kid to give them to.
 

Apesbrain

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Nov 4, 2017
Messages
591
Likes
743
Location
East Coast, USA
I had a pair of SMG, then upgraded to 1.7 when it was newly released, and enjoyed both very much. When we downsized from a house to an apartment, I just didn't have the room for them.
 
OP
thanhh

thanhh

Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2019
Messages
38
Likes
25
So
I love my Magnepans. I bought a pair of 3.6/R 20 years ago and still listen to them daily. They sound fantastic, especially with natural acoustic music and voices. They also measure well if you set them up right in the room: flat frequency response from 30 Hz to 20 kHz, low distortion, and fast, even spectral decay.

Why aren't they more popular here? I have a few guesses:
  • They are impractical, requiring a medium-large dedicated listening room with speakers positioned away from walls & corners out in the room.
  • They don't play as loud as dynamic speakers that cost the same.
  • They have tight, clean bass but they don't do much below 30 Hz. So the explosions in your movies won't shake the room.
  • They are hard to measure properly, since near-field is not what you hear, and far-field is affected by the room. So their published measurements typically understate their best-case potential performance (when set up right) and people who trust measurements more than their ears don't like them.
+ The way I see it, not many speakers do well below 30 Hz without the help of good position, room size, room treatments, EQ and multiple subs. So this is not really Maggies' design fault.
+ In term of measurement, do they actually sound good when we have good measurement at listening position using REW? Right now, I have not too bad measurement in REW down to 30Hz regarding the restrictions I have in their positions. But regarding they are measured differently, how do I know if they are measured and sound ok at the same time.
Right now, the thing I'm really happy with is the sound stage. The intimacy, "feel real and right there" of vocal that is played by them. They kinda disappear when music play. Voice is dead center, instruments sometimes sound like they are not coming from the speakers without room echo.
 

MRC01

Major Contributor
Joined
Feb 5, 2019
Messages
3,425
Likes
4,030
Location
Pacific Northwest
... + In term of measurement, do they actually sound good when we have good measurement at listening position using REW? Right now, I have not too bad measurement in REW down to 30Hz regarding the restrictions I have in their positions. But regarding they are measured differently, how do I know if they are measured and sound ok at the same time. ...
I measure mine at the listener position in the room. This is the only way to measure large dipoles in a useful way - so the measurements reflect what you actually hear. Actually I used 6 different positions (3 points along the couch, each high and low) and found the differences from dead center position were insignificant. I measure with REW, change stuff (arrangement, room treatment, EQ, whatever), measure again, repeat until satisfied.

Subjectively, I found that the early changes, which corrected big problems, made big easily audible improvements. Once the biggest problems were solved (mostly with room arrangement & treatment with tube traps, bass traps, resonators, foam), the later differences, tuning the last few dB, the differences weren't obvious, it would require more careful controlled listening to detect.

I never encountered a situation where making a change that improved the measurements, made it sound worse. However, there were corner cases. For example: At one point I was trying to fix a 70 Hz null. Applying EQ took +9 dB which made the FR flatter, but it sounded terrible: bloated, muddy bass response. So you might say that it measured better (flatter FR) but sounded worse. But that isn't true. It didn't measure better overall. Sure, the EQ improved FR but it made CSD and distortion much worse. I killed that null using room treatments instead of EQ, which flattened the FR while also improving distortion & CSD at the same time. A single measurement like FR can be misleading, unless you get the full picture and understand them.
 

mitchco

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Audio Company
Joined
May 24, 2016
Messages
641
Likes
2,397
Too many years ago I had the 2.6R's and a Classe DR 2 amp driving them. As others have mentioned, the trick with these speaker is to angle them in a way so the rear wave is hitting the side wall, which then bounces back to the front wall and then comes out dead centre at the LP. It takes some finagling to get the angles lined up, but once you do, the soundstage is not only huge, the depth of field is simply amazing.

I set up a multi-panel (I think it was 3 panel) Tympani way back when in an Audio Shop in Edmonton in a room that was designed with proper room ratios and using a TEF computer to position them. I remember listening to full range Orchestra and the sense of being there was goose bump territory. As others have pointed out, there pros and cons, but they can really create an illusion that most box speakers can't. Fun times.
 

bigx5murf

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Nov 6, 2018
Messages
522
Likes
343
No one mentioned inefficiency? I think that should be a part of it, considering how many modem speakers are focused on hyper efficiency (eg: Klipsch, Tekton).

I sold my Rotel turntable to an older gentleman, who had just gotten rid of his Maggie's. He claimed they were amazing with vocals. But even with 200wpc, turning them up higher than a "loud talking voice" distorted them.
 
Last edited:

g29

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
May 1, 2019
Messages
520
Likes
318
... But even with 200wpc, turning them up higher than a "loud talking voice" distorted them.

200wpc is the entry level for Maggies. What he was hearing was most likely the amp clipping. I had the same thing with a 180wpc amp and Maggie 1.6's. A larger amp resolved those issues as well as stopped the fuses from blowing.

There is a big power difference between 101dB horns and 86dB planars.
 
Last edited:
OP
thanhh

thanhh

Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2019
Messages
38
Likes
25
I measure mine at the listener position in the room. This is the only way to measure large dipoles in a useful way - so the measurements reflect what you actually hear. Actually I used 6 different positions (3 points along the couch, each high and low) and found the differences from dead center position were insignificant. I measure with REW, change stuff (arrangement, room treatment, EQ, whatever), measure again, repeat until satisfied.

Subjectively, I found that the early changes, which corrected big problems, made big easily audible improvements. Once the biggest problems were solved (mostly with room arrangement & treatment with tube traps, bass traps, resonators, foam), the later differences, tuning the last few dB, the differences weren't obvious, it would require more careful controlled listening to detect.

I never encountered a situation where making a change that improved the measurements, made it sound worse. However, there were corner cases. For example: At one point I was trying to fix a 70 Hz null. Applying EQ took +9 dB which made the FR flatter, but it sounded terrible: bloated, muddy bass response. So you might say that it measured better (flatter FR) but sounded worse. But that isn't true. It didn't measure better overall. Sure, the EQ improved FR but it made CSD and distortion much worse. I killed that null using room treatments instead of EQ, which flattened the FR while also improving distortion & CSD at the same time. A single measurement like FR can be misleading, unless you get the full picture and understand them.
Thanks for clarifying this. So the process is exactly the same with box speakers, position until listenable, then small tweaks. The small tweaks took me 1 year ans countless measurements with my last speakers. I don't know if it sounds better after one year or I'm just tired of tweaking and start to accept the sound :p
 
OP
thanhh

thanhh

Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2019
Messages
38
Likes
25
No one mentioned inefficiency? I think that should be a part of it, considering how many modem breaks are focused on hyper efficiency (eg: Klipsch, Tekton).

I sold my Rotel turntable to an older gentleman, who had just gotten rid of his Maggie's. He claimed they were amazing with vocals. But even with 200wpc, turning them up higher than a "loud talking voice" distorted them.
It pretty much depends on the room size and how loud you listen right? I'm driving mine mainly with an old Sony TA-F555ESX (Japanese version of TA-F800) with 120Wpc/8Ohm and 180Wpc/4Ohm and to me it sounds not bad at all. I sometimes even drive them with an 50Wpc tube amp and achieve decent level. I did however order a Crown XLS 2002 to see if more wattage is actually better with them or not, still waiing for it to arrive. I bought the Crown because it's cheap, easy to resell, so if they actually better with more wattage then I'll order a Hypex amp to drive them. With my speakers in the lounge room, room noise floor around 40dB, I'm not too fuss with SINAD number.
 

MRC01

Major Contributor
Joined
Feb 5, 2019
Messages
3,425
Likes
4,030
Location
Pacific Northwest
The power requirements for Maggies have some pros & cons.
They're close to a purely resistive load - flat impedance vs. frequency curve - which is easier on amps.
They're lowish impedance - the 3.6/R vary from about 4.5 ohms in the bass to 3.3 in the treble.
They have low voltage sensitivity, which means you need higher voltage to reach the same SPLs.
Due to their low impedance, that high voltage draws high current, so they aren't efficient.
Their dispersion is line source, rather than spherical, so you get less SPL drop with distance. This mitigates some of their low efficiency.

Overall, they require a powerful amp. I drive mine with an Adcom 5800, 450 wpc continuous into 4 ohms. You can get away with 250 wpc into 4 ohms, as a minimum. But I wouldn't go below that.
 
OP
thanhh

thanhh

Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2019
Messages
38
Likes
25
@MRC01 pretty much inline with information that I found out about Maggies. The Crown xls 2002 with 375Wpc-650Wpc-1050Wpc into 8-4-2Ohm should be more than enough to let them sing yeah?
 

MRC01

Major Contributor
Joined
Feb 5, 2019
Messages
3,425
Likes
4,030
Location
Pacific Northwest
Yep that should be plenty of power. They are revealing speakers so I would take 250 clean watts over 500 dirty watts.
 
OP
thanhh

thanhh

Member
Joined
Sep 17, 2019
Messages
38
Likes
25
If I understand and calculate correctly, with my room 35-40dB noise floor, average music about 87dB. Any amps with SINAD > 65dB would be clean enough for me, more than that it'll just be drown in room noise. :p
 

josh358

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2017
Messages
493
Likes
387
I have a love-hate relationship with Magnepan, Over the years, I've owned several pairs of Maggies including SMGa's, SMGc's and I currently have a pair of MG1.6's. Although I haven't tried any newer designs, I recommend that you stay away from older round aluminum wire coil designs and go for the newer drivers that use aluminum tape instead (These are the so-called QR versions which I believe started with the MG1.7).

My hate for these speakers comes from the fact that Magnepan did not apply sound manufacturing processes and principles to their older designs. While I can't comment on their newer designs, you will find many idiosyncrasies in their older builds - 100's of staples used to fix the fabric covers to the frame, strips of painted over masking tape to hide things, lots of variability in the coil position between the magnets, staples "tacking" the driver to the frame, etc. The older speaker's wire coils have limited contact area with the Mylar film and tend to de-laminate as a result. You will hear older Maggies buzz at particular frequencies and if purchasing second hand, always run a frequency sweep test at high volume and listen for any buzzing or rattling sounds which will indicate that the the coil has lifted in places or, the frame has loosened, etc.

Even with the shoddy build quality, Maggies actually sound very good and are a pleasure to listen to casually - I still enjoy my MG1.6 speakers that I occasionally listen to. At the same time, they are not very accurate and are fussy about amplifier pairing even though they are supposedly an easy load. Like the original Quad ESL's my MG1.6's sound wonderful with acoustic jazz and chamber music but don't do a good job going loud and deep with full scale orchestral works and rock / blues. The larger true ribbon HF MG3.7's etc can go louder but need a large room to work well and will dominate the decor. I was tempted to upgrade to MG3.7's but instead opted for JBL LSR 708P's in the end and I don't regret my decision at all.
FWIW, the delamination was caused by an issue with the adhesives they used. The original adhesive was sensitive to ultraviolet light, and the adhesive they replaced that with proved sensitive to moisture. So they did some R&D with life cycle testing and found the current adhesive, 3M 30NF. Since then, delamination hasn't been a problem.

Hate those staples, though. :)
 
Top Bottom