Measurements of RME ADI-2 DAC and Headphone Amp

[MC_RME]

That depends on how @amirm measures it.

If he choses to do it at 2 V RMS and 4 V RMS, for the single ended and symmetrical output, respectively, according to RME's specs for the SNR (117 dB for original, 120 dB for revised) SINAD should improve by 3 dB to 115 dB.

That's what I call good guessing! Here is the respective measurement, +13 dBu Ref level with volume dialed down to -4.5 dB.

 

[VintageFlanker]

That's what I call good guessing! Here is the respective measurement, +13 dBu Ref level with volume dialed down to -4.5 dB.

View attachment 40398

Oh my... Highest distortion at -132dB! Insane.Any measurements at max output (+19dBu)?

 

[MC_RME]

Here you go:

 

[Veri]

Pretty crazy for an AK4493 chip a job well done @MC_RME.
Now the question of course, will you guys tackle the AK4499 eventually?

 

[mtf612]

Maybe this is a silly question, but @MC_RME is there any chance of sales in the US during Black Friday / Cyber Monday for the newer version?

 

[CMB]

Hello,

First, I would like to thank you all for this indeed interesting, helpful, most competent Website/Forum/Thread.
I am following it since a few weeks trying to make up my mind on a new decent DAC to play with my new tube AMP (Line Magnetic 845) on my PIEGA speakers from Audirvana on a Mac mini.
It should replace my older Micromega and IFI IDSD MICRO - both tested here.

So, it became the RME ADI 2 DAC V.2 - which BTW just arrived today (BTW after 5 days transportation for 300 KM!!) and is already playing fine.
Don't expect any technical/mesurement background from me, besides these graphs look very impressive.
Thanks for these reliable technical and measurable arguments and fact checks here.

However, I could give you some first totally subjective listening impressions first hand.
The (new) RME is currently playing as pre-amp into the Line Magnetic as power amp.
First you need to know, it is not transparent at all, at least not the box, my wife noticed it right away.
Sound-wise, the clarity and rapidity is indeed very impressive, transparent as the king new clothes.
Voices/instruments (piano/violin/cimbals/trumpets/organs...) became so much more credible.

I also had wabbling bass problem previously, which astonishing enough seems to have totally disappeared without even any EQ yet...
It is a pleasure to listen, at least with most of the records.

I was worried first about loosing any sound quality while playing MQA files from Tidal.
I am not missing anything at all.

So where is the downside?
Someone, reported some harshness before with a specific title.
I could add an other track here. Listening to the "Gardian of the Galaxy" becomes such a pain and I agree it must be the recording.
And no, less treble did not help it.
I am just discovering, so will have to find out set up/filters/EQ positions to help with such kind older rock recordings. Any suggestion are welcome.
Otherwhise, with any decent recording the RME is such a refreshing pleasure to listen to.

At this stage and after 3 hours listening, I don't regret the buy at all.

Cheers,

 

[Willem]

I could not agree more. My first suggestion would be to use the dynamic loudness facility.

 

[Bliman]

If you push Button 1, what does it display regarding B & T? For Line out that is.

12.3 Subpage Bass / Treble B/T Enable
OFF, ON. Default: ON
Bass Gain
Current Bass amplification for the current channels as set by encoder 1 (B). Adjustable between -6 dB and +6 dB in steps of 0.5 dB.
Bass Freq
Corner frequency of the shelf bass filter. Adjustable from 20 Hz to 150 Hz in steps of 1 Hz. De- fault: 85 Hz.
Bass Q
The quality factor of the filter is adjustable from 0.5 to 1.5. Default 0.9.
Treble Gain
Current Treble amplification for the current channels as set by encoder 2 (T). Adjustable between -6 dB and +6 dB in steps of 0.5 dB.
Treble Freq
Corner frequency of the shelf treble filter. Adjustable from 3 kHz to 10 kHz in steps of 100 Hz. Default: 6.5 kHz.
Treble Q
The quality factor of the filter is adjustable from 0.5 to 1.5. Default 0.7.

Thanks for the info. When I push button 1. B & T display 0 and I cannot change it when the B/T tone control is disabled. If I enable it then it displays whatever I set it to.

 

[Bliman]

Hello,

First, I would like to thank you all for this indeed interesting, helpful, most competent Website/Forum/Thread.
I am following it since a few weeks trying to make up my mind on a new decent DAC to play with my new tube AMP (Line Magnetic 845) on my PIEGA speakers from Audirvana on a Mac mini.
It should replace my older Micromega and IFI IDSD MICRO - both tested here.

So, it became the RME ADI 2 DAC V.2 - which BTW just arrived today (BTW after 5 days transportation for 300 KM!!) and is already playing fine.
Don't expect any technical/mesurement background from me, besides these graphs look very impressive.
Thanks for these reliable technical and measurable arguments and fact checks here.

However, I could give you some first totally subjective listening impressions first hand.
The (new) RME is currently playing as pre-amp into the Line Magnetic as power amp.
First you need to know, it is not transparent at all, at least not the box, my wife noticed it right away.
Sound-wise, the clarity and rapidity is indeed very impressive, transparent as the king new clothes.
Voices/instruments (piano/violin/cimbals/trumpets/organs...) became so much more credible.

I also had wabbling bass problem previously, which astonishing enough seems to have totally disappeared without even any EQ yet...
It is a pleasure to listen, at least with most of the records.

I was worried first about loosing any sound quality while playing MQA files from Tidal.
I am not missing anything at all.

So where is the downside?
Someone, reported some harshness before with a specific title.
I could add an other track here. Listening to the "Gardian of the Galaxy" becomes such a pain and I agree it must be the recording.
And no, less treble did not help it.
I am just discovering, so will have to find out set up/filters/EQ positions to help with such kind older rock recordings. Any suggestion are welcome.
Otherwhise, with any decent recording the RME is such a refreshing pleasure to listen to.

At this stage and after 3 hours listening, I don't regret the buy at all.

Cheers,

That's very interesting indeed. So you also got this harshness when listening to it. There is something in the treble that doesn't seem right. And I hear it in every recording. Not always to the degree that it is a pain. But more in the sense that the treble is pronounced and the sound is feeling very light. Where the midrange is missing a bit.
Could you hear a difference in treble with other recordings too?
Hopefully I can show the curves with the microphone this weekend or soon thereafter.
I played the last Boards of Canada recording and on the first or second song the imaging was very very good. Hopefully I can make it sing always.

 

[VintageFlanker]

Pretty crazy for an AK4493 chip a job well done @MC_RME.

In fact, they just burst the specs of the chip itself (113dB SINAD)!... You guys should be hired by AKM.

Hello,
First, I would like to thank you all for this indeed interesting, helpful, most competent Website/Forum/Thread.

Welcome aboard!

Here you go:View attachment 40399

So... 2nd harmonic is now at -122dB (-132dB at 4V). So, is THD+N lower due to higher SNR? But with more distortion? Sure, none of these will be audible anyway.

So you also got this harshness when listening to it. There is something in the treble that doesn't seem right. And I hear it in every recording.

@Bliman , the place is still a science based forum. Just because you still hear some harshness (for now, the reason is still unknown) and one guy heard it as well on ONE recording, doesn't make the DAC harsh. Because unless your unit is defective, it is not. Also, harshness could be related to high-mids and not to Treble.

 

[Bliman]

In fact, they just burst the specs of the chip itself (113dB SINAD)!... You guys should be hired by AKM.

Welcome aboard!


So... 2nd harmonic is now at -122dB (-132dB at 4V). So, is THD+N lower due to higher SNR? But with more distortion? Sure, none of these will be audible anyway.

@Bliman , the place is still a science based forum. Just because you still hear some harshness (for now, the reason is still unknown) and one guy heard it as well on ONE recording, doesn't make the DAC harsh. Because unless your unit is defective, it is not. Also, harshness could be related to high-mids and not to Treble.

Yeah yeah I agree. I am just trying to find a correlation. And I also agree it could be high-mids.
I hope I can be more scientific and know the source when I can measure it by microphone.
I don't want to discourage anyone for this dac or dispute anything. And I wouldn't rule out that I am not accustomed anymore to listening to my main system. Who knows if I put back the Grace I could hear the same thing.
It just jumped out at me with the recordings I put on. I am not saying the dac is bad, etc... I hope you know what I mean

 

[JIW]

So... 2nd harmonic is now at -122dB (-132dB at 4V). So, is THD+N lower due to higher SNR? But with more distortion? Sure, none of these will be audible anyway.

Yes, SNR is about 4-5 dB higher (120 dB at 0 dB vs. 115-6 dB for -4.5 dB (~120-4.5)) but distortion is of similar magnitude as noise (ca. -120 dB for 0 dB vs. ca. 130 dB for -4.5 dB).

Assuming noise and distortion are uncorrelated gives 0 dB SINAD of ca. 117 dB while for -4.5 dB, SINAD is essentially the SNR (ca. 115-6 dB) since the ca. 15 dB lower distortion detracts only about 0.1-0.2 dB.

Since I only eyeballed the THD from @MC_RME's figures and relied on RME's spec for the SNR, the exact numbers may deviate a bit but not enough to meaningfully change the result.

 

[CMB]

Thank you Willem, Bliman and Vintage,
I will do some further hearings this WE and will be very interested indeed in Blimans mesures to maybe adapt eq for some records (mainly for 80' Rock).
Loudness function and High-Mids could maybe be an interesting proposition to check out.
I guess this gear needs to be domesticated.
Have a great day and fun in the meantime!

 

[Nostro]

I already know what to think: This upgrade is useless (except for that remote)... and I suggest you to don't do the same shit!
More to come.

Haha....as much as I love the look of the new remote & its onboard functions....I tend to agree. I can't see it sounding any different. And having spoken to the distributor out here, I was told new stock not due to leave Germany for another week or so.

Made my life easier...pulled the trigger yesterday, early black Friday deal also, I expect it at my door Friday.

Looking forward to your thoughts once your new model arrives.

 

[MC_RME]

Exactly. We did not update the DAC to sell it a second time to existing customers. We had to do it to stay in the top range of Amir's SINAD chart

Instead we always planned to make the old unit compatible to the new remote. The firmware supporting it was released already months ago, but at that time we could not communicate the extended functionality. That said the new remote will be available soon as accessory.

 

[pos]

@MC_RME, what dac chip does the ADI2 FS (non pro, non dac) use?

 

[VintageFlanker]

@MC_RME, what dac chip does the ADI2 FS (non pro, non dac) use?

The ADI-2 FS also uses the conversion technology of the ADI-2 Pro: the AK557x family and the AK4490 not only offer 192 kHz sampling frequency and lowest distortion, but also a dynamic range of 120 dB

 

[pos]

Thank you @VintageFlanker.
I was anticipating it to have the last DAC chip: it was announced a few months ago but only became available this month, hence my hope for a last minute update before launch...

 

[VintageFlanker]

An improved output stage ? What are you talking about? Neither @MC_RME or the product page is mentionning that.

Thanks for clarifying, @Audiophonics !

 

[pos]

What I would really like to see would be an ADI2 DAC lite, with only the DAC portion of the ADI2 FS.
No screen, no PEQ, a commodity DAC really, but one with pristine performance and reliability.

Oh, and with a full size AES input please

(christmas list...)