Combined 2ch system and home theater

[BDWoody]

Thanks for the suggestions.
I'm sure all those alternative volume controls are valid solutions to the volume problem.
But I still don't see how to solve a conflict between a home theater application and a computer audiophile application.
Yes, you can run your dac(s) straight into the power amp(s) and control the volume, but now how are you going to operate your Oppo/Directv (HDMI) without separate amps/speakers?
The switching action of a Pre/Pro is quite valuable unless you want to manually swap connections. And according to Amir's measurements, the Pre/Pro may be a huge performance bottleneck.

Again, I don't care about the audiophile quality of Oppo/Directv. That will be good enough through, in my case, an Emotiva XMC-1.

Or, is the MCH analog passthrough function of Pre/Pro devices much cleaner than the Amir measurements otherwise indicate?
Thanks, good weekend!

I think a lot of us are trying to figure out the same thing...
I was looking at an older motu 896 mk3 hybrid.

https://motu.com/products/motuaudio/896mk3

It looks like it could do much of what I want in what is effectively a digital preamp. My speakers have aes input, as does the minidsp ddrc 88d (aes in/out), so I'm thinking it might make for an effective solution for me. I would be able to combine more of these or other motu units along with their sound card to have more controllable, switchable inputs and outputs for whatever theater I may have. Even without their card, it can connect through USB and give me 7.1 aes out. At least that's how it looks...?

Anybody familiar with the moto products, or similar...and how this might work for my application?

I see some of the rme and lynx stuff, but if an older box can do what I need...

 

[Kal Rubinson]

It looks like it could do much of what I want in what is effectively a digital preamp. My speakers have aes input, as does the minidsp ddrc 88d (aes in/out), so I'm thinking it might make for an effective solution for me. I would be able to combine more of these or other motu units along with their sound card to have more controllable, switchable inputs and outputs for whatever theater I may have. Even without their card, it can connect through USB and give me 7.1 aes out. At least that's how it looks...?

Digital signal switching/routing is another story.

 

[ernestcarl]

It needs the wire for USB control. Have you looked at the Microsoft Surface Dial?

I have thought about it. Seems rather overpriced for it only to be used as a glorified volume knob. I might check it out eventually if they have a sample on display available at our local Microsoft 'store'...

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I have thought about it. Seems rather overpriced for it only to be used as a glorified volume knob. I might check it out eventually if they have a sample on display available at our local Microsoft 'store'...

I tried it and was impressed but am concerned about compatibility with Jriver/Roon.

 

[gene_stl]

Those are all unbal/RCA devices and I already have a Zektor MAS7.1 for that. Since I need 8 channels of bal/XLR switching, I am experimenting with stacking 4 of these WZ-60 switches.

There is a Kramer VS-88A which is similar to the Zektor. It is an 8X8 balanced matrix audio switcher. There are HDMI versions available too for more money. They cost about $1K but appear on fleabay for $1-200.

The rated signal to noise ratio is 85db compared to 90 for the Zektor. One of the Kramers fell into my lap and I will probably try it out.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod..._88A_VS_88A_Audio_Distribution_Amplifier.html

 

[Kal Rubinson]

There is a Kramer VS-88A which is similar to the Zektor. It is an 8X8 balanced matrix audio switcher. There are HDMI versions available too for more money. They cost about $1K but appear on fleabay for $1-200.

The rated signal to noise ratio is 85db compared to 90 for the Zektor. One of the Kramers fell into my lap and I will probably try it out.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod..._88A_VS_88A_Audio_Distribution_Amplifier.html

Does this really switch 8 channel signals or does it just switch 4 stereo channels at a time? AFAI can see it switches one of 8 stereo sources to any one of 8 stereo outputs.

I have hooked up the ElectroStandards passive switch and it works just fine. https://www.electrostandards.com/309256-9256-2-channel-db25-a-b-switch-623.html
It will do until I build something better.

 

[Sal1950]

The switching action of a Pre/Pro is quite valuable unless you want to manually swap connections. And according to Amir's measurements, the Pre/Pro may be a huge performance bottleneck.

Or, is the MCH analog passthrough function of Pre/Pro devices much cleaner than the Amir measurements otherwise indicate?

The measurements look much worse than I highly suspect the actual SQ is affected.

 

[gene_stl]

Does this really switch 8 channel signals or does it just switch 4 stereo channels at a time? AFAI can see it switches one of 8 stereo sources to any one of 8 stereo outputs.

"4.1 Your VS-88A 8x8 Balanced Audio Matrix Switcher
The VS-88A is a high performance 8x8 stereo audio matrix switcher for
balanced audio stereo signals using detachable terminal block connectors. In
addition, the VS-88A:
Is a true matrix switcher, enabling the user to simultaneously route any input to
any or all outputs
Delivers excellent audio performance ensuring that it remains transparent in
almost any audio application
Is controllable via the front panel buttons as well as the built-in RS-232 and
RS-485 interfaces
Includes 15 preset memory locations for quickly and easily accessing the most
frequently used configurations
May be used with the RC-8000, an optional remote controller (see section 0)
Functions as a standalone unit as well as part of a Kramer multi-signal switcher
system5
Figure 1 and Table 1 define the VS-88A:"

Eight stereo pairs in and out. Can be routed any which way either by front panel control , remote control or via RS 232/485
I will be happy to send you the manual.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

..........................................
Eight stereo pairs in and out. Can be routed any which way either by front panel control , remote control or via RS 232/485
I will be happy to send you the manual.

Yes, this is an active 2x8 switch which is not as quiet as I would like and which has only 2 8channel (equivalent to 8 2channel) inputs to switch. I did look at the manual. Perhaps you are looking for something different than what I am seeking.

 

[gene_stl]

It's actually 90 db not 85 as is posted some places. FR to 40 kHz.

I have a very long way to go before I even know what I am looking for.

I think it could switch two 7.1 system sources pretty handily. Kramer would not furnish a schematic nor parts list. I am going to open it to see if I can find chip numbers on it.

 

[ernestcarl]

Surface Dial Control Software

One could probably simply ask the Roon and JRiver developers to 'develop' for the surface dial... it's actually more promising than I had originally thought.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

One could probably simply ask the Roon and JRiver developers to 'develop' for the surface dial... it's actually more promising than I had originally thought.

Cool. One can ask.

 

[ernestcarl]

Cool. One can ask.

Already have... for the upcoming version 26 -- hopefully they can see the light!

*Only posted in the JRiver Forums. I don't use Roon. So someone else would need to tell those guys.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Already have... for the upcoming version 26 -- hopefully they can see the light!
*Only posted in the JRiver Forums. I don't use Roon. So someone else would need to tell those guys.

Ordered my Dial.

 

[Neddy]

Oh. Great. ANOTHER way cool 'rabid' hole to fall into!

Definitely on my list for use with JR eventually.
Great YT channel, too - thanks!!!!!
Kal, can you pls report back (briefly) how you like it?

 

[joffpiste]

Is 10 days too long to resurrect a thread?

I too am looking to separate my music from my existing home theatre setup. Amir's tests have proven what I've been hearing - that I can do much better by avoiding the receiver for music. I'm already running outboard amps, so I was considering a DAC with volume control direct to the amp, but that doesn't solve the HT bypass issue.

One solution could be a 2 in-1 out RCA line level switch, but I'd want it to be musically transparent and be switchable via IR remote (gotta use the Harmony for everything). I didn't see anything like that mentioned here, I don't think. Any ideas (in Canada just to make it that much harder)?

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Kal, can you pls report back (briefly) how you like it?

So far, no luck. My computers recognize the Dial but I cannot get it to send the right commands to JRMC. Even if I program those commands into the "Wheel" setup, it still only scrolls the display up/down.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

UPDATE: I learned that it is necessary to load JRMC and, then, hold down the Dial until an on-screen menu appears allowing one to select the volume or Custom control option.

Now, I can leave the Dial on my coffee table and have easy access to volume control and pause/resume.

 

[ernestcarl]

UPDATE: I learned that it is necessary to load JRMC and, then, hold down the Dial until an on-screen menu appears allowing one to select the volume or Custom control option.

Now, I can leave the Dial on my coffee table and have easy access to volume control and pause/resume.

Good to know, Kal! Although, even better still would be to incorporate some way to skip forward and back quickly... But at least the options that matter the most are already there as a start.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Good to know, Kal! Although, even better still would be to incorporate some way to skip forward and back quickly... But at least the options that matter the most are already there as a start.

Not perfect. You need to program the JRMC keystroke shortcuts into the custom field and JRMC's response is a little stiff. Nonetheless, it is extremely useful to have this on the coffee table so that I, and others, can use it quickly and intuitively.
Programming in forward/back would be easy but switching the Dial back and forth from this to VC is not without having a screen display directly at hand.