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USB high-speed isolators comparison tests

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carlmart

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Double blind has not proven totally reliable, and of course you have to level match what you are listening.

It seems you are not familiar or do not seem to believe that audio professionals always listen to things in a different way from non-professionals. Or that their listening memory is also much more developed.

They do not invent things or expect to sound this or that, you just listen and hear what or how it sounds like. It's part of your job.
 

SIY

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Double blind has not proven totally reliable, and of course you have to level match what you are listening.

It seems you are not familiar or do not seem to believe that audio professionals always listen to things in a different way from non-professionals. Or that their listening memory is also much more developed.

They do not invent things or expect to sound this or that, you just listen and hear what or how it sounds like. It's part of your job.

Riiiiight.
 

Speedskater

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Stereophile absolutely did, sometimes even did subjective tests only. Maybe they changed their ways lately.
They haven't done a subjective (ears only) test in a couple of decades! They did some weekend long loudspeakers tests with several reviewers and darkened loudspeaker area. But the reviewers couldn't repeat their opinions on the second day, so the magazine stopped doing serious tests.

For the most part, their reviewers can't do a report without knowing:
  • manufacture
  • series or line (for larger manufactures)
  • price point
  • technology
  • visual impression (mostly for turntables and loudspeakers)
  • opinion of other reviewers and Golden Ears
 

Veri

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It seems you are not familiar or do not seem to believe that audio professionals always listen to things in a different way from non-professionals. Or that their listening memory is also much more developed.

Oh wow. Audio professionals have better listening memory. :facepalm:

Right...
 

Shadrach

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In my experience, and a I have a good ear trained for a lifetime as audio engineer, even a resistor can affect things in a system which is transparent enough. In my line of work you could not imagine things, so you can repeat things over and over and always pinpoint things.

That is just training, anyone can do it.

So a power supply will certainly affect things. Please not the word: affect. That doesn't mean improve or worsen.

Sorry if I do not trust measurements very much when they do not show something you are clearly listening to. The ear is a very sensitive tool if you know how to do it.

I have a friend who makes very high quality speakers, so we are constantly making tests.
There is something very wrong here.
I find it hard to believe an audio engineer (whatever that happens to be) would be asking this question.
Will this supply really be linear?

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/400...chweb0_0,searchweb201602_1,searchweb201603_55
 
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carlmart

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Well, you seem to think you have things right and solved, even doubting what audio engineers are capable of.

It seems some of you seem to think people that deal with areas that mix measuring and subjective evaluation are an invention of my mind. Film & video DOPs are like that to, mixing measuring and subjective all the time. It's called experience.

Of course audio professionals have a listening memory. You develop with the job. You don't have it because you don't live from it and with it. So please assume your ignorance, because that is what it is. Have you ever met or worked with an audio engineer?

It seems not, or you wouldn't be saying anything, because it's just an opinion and only that. You think it is like that.

You can't listen to minute changes in things, bad luck for you. You're not just doubting me, but the whole lot of audio professionals in the market. You have absolutely no idea what an audio engineer is capable of, most certainly much more than me too in many areas.

"An audio engineer (whatever that happens to be)"? Really? It seems you do not know what an audio engineer is, so find out.

Go to a recording studio, and you will meet them. Talk to them, ask them questions, maybe you will see how "audio science" is quite a bit more than measuring, and that many things they can listen to can't be measured. As simple as that.

You don't believe that is possible? Tell them that if it can't be measured it doesn't exist, and see how they laugh at you.

And my question was very simple: Aliexpress claim that power supply is linear, which I think it might not be, because it seems too small and light. And they just call it linear, when it's might not be.

Audio can't really be a science, so the name of this site is really an oxymoron. An invention. Sorry if some you believe it is, because it is not.
 

ryohnosuke

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Well, you seem to think you have things right and solved, even doubting what audio engineers are capable of.
Is well known that brazilians audio engineers can hear more than others because they have a partial extra copy of chromosome 21. Is just genetics and natural selection so there's no way to refute your arguments.
 
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carlmart

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Don be ridiculous.

You seem not to have any idea of what you are talking about, so you have to rely on stupid comments, that only reveal more of your total ignorance of the matter.

Go to any audio studio where you live and talk to any audio engineer there. You may learn quite a lot.
 

Xulonn

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It seems you are not familiar or do not seem to believe that audio professionals always listen to things in a different way from non-professionals. Or that their listening memory is also much more developed.

If you believe that this website is just a bunch of audio yahoos, e.g., a place that is not grounded in a foundation of audio professionals and experts, you haven't done any research and reading here at ASR.

Do you actually not realize that most of the people responding to your ridiculous claims have done their homework, or in some cases, are at least as professionally qualified in audio as you? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and confirmation. Ego-related chest puffery is not scientific evidence. It appears that you have knowledge in audio technology and engineering, but are totally clueless about the science of psycho-acoustics.

Some of the finest audio engineers and experts in the world participate here at ASR. Although many of us are simply "audio enthusiasts," we have experience that ranges from that of newbies in the hobby all the way to some of us who have been audiophiles for 60 years or more. Most of us gain our knowledge from proven experts - and we are willing to change our minds only when confirmed, repeatable science-based testing and evidence challenges it.

Many of the statements expressed in this thread that challenge your unsupported opinions and beliefs are based on published and confirmed audio science. Have you read - and understood - Floyd Toole's published audio science and books? You have not mentioned or linked to a single peer-reviewed scientific of audio engineering paper - everything you say seems to be based on the"opinions," "beliefs" and unconfirmed non-scientific or "semi' scientific testing. Those opinions are worthless unless you can link them to peer-reviewed science and engineering that supports them.

(Please note that I am responding to your opinions and attitude - I do not intend this post as an "ad hominem" e.g., and attack on you as a person.)
 
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carlmart

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Sorry, but a place whose members or people coming to it still believe that the only thing that matters in audio are measurements, and disregard the importance of subjective listenings having as much importance as measurements, may have done their homework in school or engineering, but not in the actual field.

My claims are not ridiculous, and my attitude has nothing to with it. I have dealt and spoken with professional audio engineers and mixers, film & video mostly, location and studio, from USA, UK, France, Argentina and Brazil, with years of experience. I really do not know what experience people coming here might have, but from the responses and comments here there doesn't seem to be actually recording experienced people around here.

My claims are far from extraordinary, and the objective versus subjective in audio matters was very much mentioned in The Audio Amateur (later Audio Electronics), Sound Studio and other mags I used to follow. It's no use having been 60 years enthusiasts if you still believe in measurements as the only way to evaluate audio equipment. And of course there are people still thinking that way: electronics engineers. Actually I care little for them .

Some of those electronics engineers crossed through and started listening. And found that there were things that could be listened and not measured, and the question was to find a way on how to do that. Walt Jung comes to my mind, Bartolomeo Aloia is another one. You can read about them in Wikipedia. Those are people I know and respect. None of them is here.

There was an Italian magazine called Suono, that was quite popular in the professional audio business in the '80s and '90s, that devised ways to try to quantify things as an approach to measure such things. Things like that were sometimes mentioned in Studio Sound.

Science is based on repeatable testing, and what you do not believe is that audio engineers or audio experts can and do repeat those things I mentioned all the time. It's there where your arguments are flawed. You call such things as opinions, or beliefs, or "unconfirmed" non-scientific (?) testing, when I was talking of a capability audio engineers developed to listen to things.

Audio engineers do not waste their time writing audio engineering papers, they work based on the abilities they develop. They do not need to prove anything to anyone.

Read real life stories or watch videos where audio engineers tell the stories on how they made such or such records, particularly old ones, where tools where much simpler and natural. They are full of how they discovered how to do things.

Measurements are just a start, and you seem to consider it the end. Keep thinking that way if you prefer, but you are missing a large, very large piece of real life.
 

BDWoody

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It seems you are not familiar or do not seem to believe that audio professionals always listen to things in a different way from non-professionals. Or that their listening memory is also much more developed.

They do not invent things or expect...

I absolutely believe you and they firmly believe that.

Unfortunately, it shows a lack of understanding of the nature of bias and psychoacoustics. Without simple controls, comparisons are meaningless.

If they or anyone else don't want to recognize the reality of that, either because it's just terribly inconvenient to the narrative they are telling (selling), or just don't know it, they are either ignorant, disingenuous or just outright liars.
In any case, dismissing controls as if they are above such nonsense and the limits of known physics and science...thats enough to not be taken terribly seriously.

Edit: Now, I don't mean that in a bad way.

Yes, if you can hear it, you can measure it.
Inconvenient, but true.
 
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SIY

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Sorry, but a place whose members or people coming to it still believe that the only thing that matters in audio are measurements, and disregard the importance of subjective listenings having as much importance as measurements, may have done their homework in school or engineering, but not in the actual field.

Your premise is nonsense, so everything that follows it is incorrect.

Subjective listening is NOT the same as removing any semblance of controls. The latter turns things into make-believe time.

Listening, yes. Peeking, no. Why is that a difficult concept? It really is pretty simple: ears only. Listening, with removal of non-auditory cues. There is not a science-oriented person here who would discount the results of a properly controlled listening test.
 

Xulonn

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Sorry, but a place whose members or people coming to it still believe that the only thing that matters in audio are measurements, and disregard the importance of subjective listenings having as much importance as measurements, may have done their homework in school or engineering, but not in the actual field.

Does a large, bold, italic font increse the probability of someone actually comprehending unassailable facts?

Listening, yes. Peeking, no. Why is that a difficult concept? It really is pretty simple: ears only. Listening, with removal of non-auditory cues. There is not a science-oriented person here who would discount the results of a properly controlled listening test.
 

Xulonn

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Lots of straw men around today...

Strawman.jpg
 

Willem

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The succesful distinction between truth or falsehood depends crucially on the methodology that was used to establish the difference. So, at a minimum, it needs level matched double blind observation. It also presupposes a large enough number of observations to exclude random error. You have not established that your observations met these criteria.
Your examples of great sounding gear that does not necessarily measure well (e.g. tubes) do not inspire confidence.
 

Alou

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Might be out of topic here but Xulonn i really love your avatar pic,lovely cat fellow!

I only want to add that the point in this forum is to find good equipment that are value for their price,since we cant have an AP in our home,
enjoy music and exchange info & tis and opinions .
In my experience it takes time and long listening time ,not just plug and play for an hour to discover the sound of any audio device.
I am a very technical and very picky guys being an engineer and always look at the specs ,measurements etc but to say that i really like something takes time,unless something shots from the beginning BAD likes some very cheap made (not costwise) headphones.
Price is not always the issue but usually it costs more for something to be better build.I bought a a pair of Chinese headphone last spring for $60 and couldnt believe how good they were,of course i did a small research before .I also bought a pair of American made headphone ,expensive ones and were the worst thing in my ears ever !
Also sometimes there is psychological ,stress or just tired factor,i fine myself listening to same songs ,same setups at various hours or days and on time i hear just ok and the other superb!
To sum up we all seek ways to buy what we believe is good of will be good for us so in what way we achieve this is also personal,
but you have to start somewhere your quest and that is specs and measurements ,listening come second eventhough it should be right after specs becuse most of us buy or audio gadgets online so we cant hear them before and in our listening area.

So lets all chill and listen ,i once lost myself reading specs and changing machines and forgot the point, listening to music.
I believe that the objective truth is always somewhere in the middle .

Cheers
 

BDWoody

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I believe that the objective truth is always somewhere in the middle .
Cheers

Wouldn't objective truth end up wherever it ends up? It's when things become subjective that it becomes a contest based on marketing words and egregiously emotive claims, capitalizing on every tendency enthusiasts may have, while trying to convince the world that the truth is 'in the middle,' (or anywhere else) when it really isn't...

If in my reality, I claim 2+2=5 (or I claim sounds above 25khz somehow matter in a regular and real sense to my music enjoyment for example), the truth isn't in the middle. I'm just wrong in any reality but my own.
 

Mnyb

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I’m not a scientist just a garden variety EE and have no cred in audio engineering, but I see it this way .

All the incredible audiophile claims are so unlikely, there simple is no underlying mechanisms to produce the phenomenon audiophile “hears” in uncontrolled sighted tests . Sh*t don’t work that way , for example claiming that “jitter” changes tonal balance and soundstage ? A thing that would require DSP and EQ and surely be measurable in the top 8 bits of your signal not buried away -130dB in the noise ( that our ears magically picks out and perceives ??)
The most likely explanation is always fond in the Psychoacoustics science on how we perceive and “hear”.
Its common sense .

Some fellow named Occam had something to say about it . Something like, if you have many possible explanations pick the simplest one with least assumptions built in.

If my mailbox has fallen to the ground during the night , it could be the work of UFO’s or the wind .
The likely explanation is the wind. Even if can’t now for sure . ( google Russell’s teapot)

Your audio system is very deterministic and as complicated as a rock compared to the human brain and psychology.
Where will you find the explanation.?

So extraordinary claims demands the same kind of evidence.

If I claim that I had fish for lunch I don’t think none of you would challenge that.
If I claim that there is spot in my garden without gravity, I get questions many questions :)
The wast majority of audiophile cargo cult is just as bizarre.

I do have some audiophile cred :) I believed all that cr*p for 20 years or so having all the cables and stuff , then I came to my senses one day and realised that it was just bs , and how much $ I sunken into it.

As I do other engineering for a living I realised there are no special EE laws for music the electrons does not now.
Why would an IC behave differently with music instead of other signals ? Electronics does not start to behave differently with music . That’s how I broke the spell .
 

Alou

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When i say its in the middle i mean that we need both facts (Measurements and sound quality) ,i never believe Marketing words and stopped reading commercial hifi mags long time ago ,the guys in there don't know anything about engineering or electronic design and believe in snake oils,well at least in my Area.You cant change facts in something will reproduce a certain FQ or not.
Example, i once bought a lynx 2 audio card for pro -recordings at that time it was around $900 still is i believe ,sometime later i bought an EMU 1212M at the price of $200. The EMU sounded so much better and then upon looking the boards found that they have the same AKM DAC and Cirrus logic ADC only the AKM on the EMU was 2generations newer and also had a DSP daughterboard and ADAT interface.
Even upon listening in the same set up i still cant convince a friend who is a recording engineer that the EMU is better ,he still believes that a Lynx is better just because its a Lynx and i also fooled him twice to believe that the EMU was the Lynx .
 
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carlmart

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Your premise is nonsense, so everything that follows it is incorrect.

Subjective listening is NOT the same as removing any semblance of controls. The latter turns things into make-believe time.

Listening, yes. Peeking, no. Why is that a difficult concept? It really is pretty simple: ears only. Listening, with removal of non-auditory cues. There is not a science-oriented person here who would discount the results of a properly controlled listening test.

You may think whatever you want, but my premise is not nonsense. For me your concepts are flawed and not based on practical experience.

What I said is that do not care for what you call "proper listening tests". What I say, which you stubbornly refuse to accept, is that audio engineers develop capacities and perceptions that do not nee any listening test to prove they exist.

And I got tired of repeating things you do not accept or do not seem to understand.

Keep thinking the way you do, I really do not care.
 
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