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Review and Measurements of Pioneer VSX-LX504 AVR

BDWoody

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Pioneer has never been able to make hi-fi devices. Not even in the golden 80s. That was always below average.

That may be one of the most ignorant things I've read in a long time.

SX-1980 anyone?
 

anmpr1

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That may be one of the most ignorant things I've read in a long time.

SX-1980 anyone?

I understand that the market has changed. I get that. But considering the receiver product available in the mid to late '70s, current offerings are pathetic. Both ergonomically, aesthetically, and electrically. Back in the day manufacturers actually competed with one another. In order to exist they had to send their machines to guys like Len Feldman and Julius Hirsch. Or Bascom King, who lived on the borderline of tweak, but understood things electrical.

Now, it seems that everything is stamped out at a factory in a place no one can pronounce, or easily find on a map. Most everything is indistinguishable from everything else.

PS: I owned an SX-1980. I 'lost' it in a divorce. I miss the Pioneer a lot, and if truth be known, I guess I loved it more than I ever loved the ex. At least my Pioneer didn't take half of everything I owned when it decided to malfunction. And the Pioneer was definitely less 'high maintenance'. Much easier to repair. LOL

One thing about Amir's situation: the fact that Pioneer (whoever they are, now) sent a replacement for half price is better than it could be. My guess is that half price is about dealer cost. The sad fact about these recievers is you keep them until they break, chunk them, and buy something else. No one does that with an SX-1980.
 

BDWoody

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PS: I owned an SX-1980. I 'lost' it in a divorce. I miss the Pioneer a lot, and if truth be known, I guess I loved it more than I ever loved the ex. At least my Pioneer didn't take half of everything I owned when it decided to malfunction. And the Pioneer was definitely less 'high maintenance'. Much easier to repair. LOL

You know what they say...

If it flies, floats, or fu**s, it's cheaper to rent than to buy...
 

JJB70

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The old Pioneer company is no longer active in audio. Onkyo bought the home audio bit and someone else the pro-audio name. And now I believe both Onkyo and Pioneer are shell names used by a Chinese company outside of Japan. Sad.
 

doctorjuggles

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Lucky US citizens, I serioulsy doubt in Europe a mfr would have made you such a generous offer for a trade, if they had done any!

I once had a low-end Onkyo (SR674 which cost £299).
It suffered from a strange green tinge on the picture so I sent it back to the UK distributors (Genserv) and they couldn’t fix it but offered a direct replacement of the latest version. When I asked if they could upgrade me with a payable difference, they allowed me to take the TX-NR905 for an extra £540 when the RRP at the time was around £1400.

Of course this is before the whole Pioneer/Onkyo thing happened, but we sometimes get decent service here. Or I just got lucky ;)
 
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amirm

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It would be great to see an Arcam (UK brand) AVR tested, but perhaps they don't sell many over there.
They are sold here and classically, they have had much better performance (but at higher prices too). I have not kept track of them in the last few years though.

I have a high-end NAD AVR review to come soon. And someone just offered an Anthem.
 

doctorjuggles

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They are sold here and classically, they have had much better performance (but at higher prices too). I have not kept track of them in the last few years though.

I have a high-end NAD AVR review to come soon. And someone just offered an Anthem.

If I could like that twice I would :D
I was actually going to say I’d love to see the figures of the higher end NADs because I am thinking of replacing my Pioneer and the NADs have Roon built in, but I thought it was too cheeky even to mention it!
 

Biblob

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I get the idea buying a vintage AV receiver from the '70 and' 80s will give a higher change getting better components then a 2018/2019 model. Only based on all the pictures and experiences I've seen posted by @restorer-john :)
If so, we should maybe make an inventory.
 

BDWoody

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I get the idea buying a vintage AV receiver from the '70 and' 80s will give a higher change getting better components then a 2018/2019 model. Only based on all the pictures and experiences I've seen posted by @restorer-john :)
If so, we should maybe make an inventory.

I would absolutely have no problem with one of those gorgeous receivers being the centerpiece of my house, let alone my listening room...

They were made when quality mattered, and the bling levels were very high.

They knew food properly arranged and served on a nicer plate will always taste better...and people were as happy to pay the money for them as they were to go to a fancy restaurant for a salad...

Some really nice stuff. Those sx-1980's in good shape go for thousands...as do quite a few others.
 

Biblob

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They knew food properly arranged and served on a nicer plate will always taste better...and people were as happy to pay the mone
Sure, but that's not attractive to consumers with a lower budget. I guess the brands have figured out that the lower audibility border can be reached at a much lower cost. And I don't know figures, but I guess the economy has resulted in much higher quantities. So quantity > quality easy becomes more attractive for a company. Maybe they must do so to survive in this mess.
 

Dogen

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If they just documented the deficiencies I would have been in much better mood. A footnote that says you can't run more than 33 watts for 30 seconds would do. And the fact that all internal processing is at 48 kHz. That way, I would have searched for another unit without these deficiencies. Or buy it fully aware of the restrictions. They seem to just "know" that no one measures these things anymore.

Which is why your reviews of these AVRs are so valuable. I hope you can do more of them. Most people, if they have anything other than headphones and Bluetooth speakers, are listening through these. It’s really criminal how shoddy they’ve become.

It would be interesting to try an older AVR from Pioneer or Marantz. Were they ever any better?
 

restorer-john

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The sad fact about these recievers is you keep them until they break, chunk them, and buy something else. No one does that with an SX-1980.

Consider a fully restored and benchmarked SX-1980 will easily sell north of USD$5000. All 270W/ch and 34Kg of it.

The SX-1250 is still the bargain, and in many ways a better receiver, although everyone wants the 1980.

Sorry you lost your SX-1980. Here's a picture of the last one I restored sitting on a dolly. People don't realize how big they are- that's a large turntable immediately to the right in the pic...
1980.jpeg


To give people an idea of scale, here's a typical little SMSL Class D toy amplifier:

caps (1).jpeg


Here is the same amplifier alongside just the SX-1980's main filter capacitors:

caps (3).jpeg


Here's a standard can of tomatoes:

caps (2).jpeg


The potted toroidal transformer alone weighs around 18kg.
 
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restorer-john

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It would be interesting to try an older AVR from Pioneer or Marantz. Were they ever any better?

Basically, once early AV receivers went from 2 channel receivers with additional lower powered surround channels, to 5 channels onboard, the rot set in. By 1991/2, the demand for equal power across the main channels (L/C/R) meant quality fell off again. Then Dolby digital hit and all of a sudden equal power for all channels was a requirement. Receivers of any type and price became utter junk. Not one I've ever seen can do a full power FTC test across all channels without overheating and shutting down or blowing up.

I've got some vintage monster AVRs in my collection, but none of them hold a candle to big 2 channel, 70s receivers, in terms of continuous high power delivery, noise, and behaviour into difficult loads.
 
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amirm

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I replaced my SC-61 Elite in our living room system with the VSX-LX504. To my surprise and sadness, the IP control from my Crestron system did not work. After a bunch of searching, read some random notes that they have adopted the Onkyo protocol for IP. :( So there went an hour tonight reprogramming my Crestron system using obscure (read: poorly translated Japanese to English) documentation on how you send commands to it. It is all working now.

Backward compatibility with my current system was the main preference I had for Pioneer. So that went out the window.

I guess the glass half-full version is that I can now put an Onkyo AVR in there too and not have to reprogram.
 
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