Review and Measurements of Sabaj D5 DAC & Amp

[jruser]

When ordering from Sabaj Factory Store on Amazon, are these shipping from China?

Have they had Prime shipping in the past?

 

[dwkdnvr]

I got mine via prime from the Saba store, but it was an open box/refurb - not sure whether new units are available that way.

No problems with the refurb unit so far.

 

[Fabio]

I also bought the last open box/refurb from Sabaj store/Amazon at 400 usd. Shipped from USA. The new units would be shipped from China.

 

[Kane1972]

OK, so it seems the M500 is $499 (Aliexpress), so on price ALONE, is the weakest of the three choices. Obviously this price may come down or the performance may justify the little extra $$.

 

[Kane1972]

I wonder how the M300 and M500 compare? Surely they can't be the same only the M300 uses 4497 and the M500 the 9030 PRO, as the M300 is half the price of the M500.

 

[maxxevv]

Subjectively, D70 is criticised of lacking weak lows.

I read that over at HF too BUT ... it was never clarified in what context was that discerned ?

If one wishes to talk subjectively, then there are a few common areas why things are so subjective :

i) Volume matching.

I have heard loads of people complain about the HD800 being "bass-light" , "peaky".
But the reality is that most of these complaints arise out of listening to the HD800 at lower than 80dB levels. In my experience, and @solderdude has shared too, that the FR curve of the HD800 slightly alters with volume. The bass spectrum rises to almost a generally " flat" FR curve at about 82 dB. In my previous experience with them, before this revelation from Hans was that the HD800 sounded "thin"when I listened to them at low volumes. But I was actually pretty happy with sound profile as I ramped up the volume a notch or two.

Its a similar thing with DACs with amps. Was the person listening and comparing the two devices volume matched either with a calibrated microphone or measured the output voltage at the device itself ?

The other phenomena associated with "light bass" which is also a result of failure to volume match is when one device has a treble roll-off and the other doesn't. It becomes a problem especially when the problematic one is used before the correct one. Due to the treble roll-off, when one tries to "volume match" by ear, one will tend to set the first device at a higher volume than the second one because it requires a higher volume for one's ears to derive the same level of treble detail, thus indirectly the perceived volume is "equalised" when the treble detail is perceived as equal. In the end result the second device is actually at a lower volume, and as a result, the bass is actually lower. Not because the device is so, but because the volume has not been equally set.

ii) Amp limitations.

Were the 2 DAC's running off the same amps ?
Same problem as above, in that different amps may have frequency roll-offs that alters one's perception of another device.

iii) Placebo / Affirmative Bias / Cognitive Bias.

When you mind suggests that you hear something, you will hear it even if its not actually there.


From what I have tried, most well performing DAC's will sound very similar if the output circuit is not " coloured". There may be subtle differences but as far as I have tried, unless one is doing full concentration critical listening, its not enough to make a difference. And as above if level matched and played through the same well performing amp such as the Atom or THX 789, one won't pick out the differences in the blink of an eye. It may be there, but you'll need to be completely familiar with the tracks or listening intently to pick up the subtle differences. If its just a relaxed listening session, with unfamiliar music material, most unlikely that one will.

I would challenge the HF fella to try level matching with measurement devices if he can. The differences, I'm pretty confident to say will be pretty subtle at best.

 

[DeepSpace57]

I read that over at HF too BUT ... it was never clarified in what context was that discerned ?

If one wishes to talk subjectively, then there are a few common areas why things are so subjective :

i) Volume matching.

I have heard loads of people complain about the HD800 being "bass-light" , "peaky".
But the reality is that most of these complaints arise out of listening to the HD800 at lower than 80dB levels. In my experience, and @solderdude has shared too, that the FR curve of the HD800 slightly alters with volume. The bass spectrum rises to almost a generally " flat" FR curve at about 82 dB. In my previous experience with them, before this revelation from Hans was that the HD800 sounded "thin"when I listened to them at low volumes. But I was actually pretty happy with sound profile as I ramped up the volume a notch or two.

Its a similar thing with DACs with amps. Was the person listening and comparing the two devices volume matched either with a calibrated microphone or measured the output voltage at the device itself ?

The other phenomena associated with "light bass" which is also a result of failure to volume match is when one device has a treble roll-off and the other doesn't. It becomes a problem especially when the problematic one is used before the correct one. Due to the treble roll-off, when one tries to "volume match" by ear, one will tend to set the first device at a higher volume than the second one because it requires a higher volume for one's ears to derive the same level of treble detail, thus indirectly the perceived volume is "equalised" when the treble detail is perceived as equal. In the end result the second device is actually at a lower volume, and as a result, the bass is actually lower. Not because the device is so, but because the volume has not been equally set.

ii) Amp limitations.

Were the 2 DAC's running off the same amps ?
Same problem as above, in that different amps may have frequency roll-offs that alters one's perception of another device.

iii) Placebo / Affirmative Bias / Cognitive Bias.

When you mind suggests that you hear something, you will hear it even if its not actually there.


From what I have tried, most well performing DAC's will sound very similar if the output circuit is not " coloured". There may be subtle differences but as far as I have tried, unless one is doing full concentration critical listening, its not enough to make a difference. And as above if level matched and played through the same well performing amp such as the Atom or THX 789, one won't pick out the differences in the blink of an eye. It may be there, but you'll need to be completely familiar with the tracks or listening intently to pick up the subtle differences. If its just a relaxed listening session, with unfamiliar music material, most unlikely that one will.

I would challenge the HF fella to try level matching with measurement devices if he can. The differences, I'm pretty confident to say will be pretty subtle at best.

Whatever it is, Amir`s sinad graph works. D5 is better than D70. Moreover, It is cheaper even though a balance output presents. No brainer!

 

[zym1010]

When ordering from Sabaj Factory Store on Amazon, are these shipping from China?

Have they had Prime shipping in the past?

I ordered from aliexpress. their online agents told me that their new stock will arrive in US today afternoon, and my package will be shipped tomorrow or the day after tomorrow.

 

[Kane1972]

I mentioned my interest in the D70 and D5 on Gearslutz and one guy said both Sajab and Topping are total garbage. He said RME is crap too, just not as crap. He went on to say Amir is a spoilt rich kid with an analyser who has proven time and time again he doesn't know how or what to measure. He sounds like a very angry man, like a disgruntled ex-employee writing bad reviews on Trip Adviser for revenge!

 

[BDWoody]

I mentioned my interest in the D70 and D5 on Gearslutz and one guy said both Sajab and Topping are total garbage. He said RME is crap too, just not as crap. He went on to say Amir is a spoilt rich kid with an analyser who has proven time and time again he doesn't know how or what to measure. He sounds like a very angry man, like a disgruntled ex-employee writing bad reviews on Trip Adviser for revenge!

Yeah...old Bill G. was known to have morons who didn't know what they were doing running his major divisions...

 

[Kane1972]

Yeah...old Bill G. was known to have morons who didn't know what they were doing running his major divisions...

I did not know Amir's back ground at all, I just like his approach to testing gear and he always seems very accommodating and never condescending to people with shallow pockets. I'm guessing the rich part is the only fact this angry man got correct.

 

[amirm]

I mentioned my interest in the D70 and D5 on Gearslutz and one guy said both Sajab and Topping are total garbage. He said RME is crap too, just not as crap. He went on to say Amir is a spoilt rich kid with an analyser who has proven time and time again he doesn't know how or what to measure. He sounds like a very angry man, like a disgruntled ex-employee writing bad reviews on Trip Adviser for revenge!

Couldn't resist posting an answer or two there: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showpost.php?p=14158160&postcount=19

 

[Kane1972]

Nice one Amir, I was hoping you would, as I thought his bitterness towards you and his tone and disdain was too strong.

BTW, Will you be testing the M300 and M500 DAC's from SMSL soon?

 

[DeepSpace57]

Couldn't resist posting an answer or two there: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showpost.php?p=14158160&postcount=19

Shame on him!

You are the only guy that i can trust in this hobby. Technically, you are a snake oil detector, LoL

 

[BDWoody]

Couldn't resist posting an answer or two there: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showpost.php?p=14158160&postcount=19

Ever thought of a line of ASR logo'd merchandise? I'd be happy to wear a properly clever t-shirt into my local HiFi shop...see how they react...

 

[amirm]

Ever thought of a line of ASR logo'd merchandise? I'd be happy to wear a properly clever t-shirt into my local HiFi shop...see how they react...

You are reading my mind. I was thinking about making stickers to put on units I have tested but had not yet thought about other merchandize. If anyone has good sources and places to go, please let me know.

 

[jruser]

You can now order with Prime shipping, though they aren't in stock yet.

 

[frogmeat69]

Couldn't resist posting an answer or two there: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/showpost.php?p=14158160&postcount=19

LOL, wow, nice!

 

[SMSL-Mandy]

Nice one Amir, I was hoping you would, as I thought his bitterness towards you and his tone and disdain was too strong.

BTW, Will you be testing the M300 and M500 DAC's from SMSL soon?

M500 will be released on 2nd September. I will send amir M500 for test at that time.

 

[peterwen]

I still don't see the added value for them and for us to double-check their AP measurements at ASR other than seeking publicity and higher sales. Amir said he is fine with that so that's ok then.

If you want to check the emissions of your brand new Q7 and you use the same test equipment than Audi uses in it's factory you are just repeating the measurement and the results can't be other than identical. I don't see where this is excellence.

Only using a different test equipment or even a different methodology will reveal any anomalies in their measurements and results, if there were any.

ASR will end up "testing" only gear that has been already tested 3 days before with same equipment as all the other mfr with no access to the AP obviously won't send in anything.

Can you donate another measurement equipment to ASR for test? We all will be grateful to you.