Golden Age of Japanese Audio

[restorer-john]

If you plan to buy Italian car be prepared to spend more time with your mechanic than with your wife.

And that's a problem exactly why?

 

[JJB70]

In my field Japan sadly seems to be following the same trajectory as many more mature players. I remember spending time standing by newbuilding projects in Japanese yards and they worked to a completely different quality standard to anyone else. The ships were some of the biggest container ships built up to that time and one was the biggest, they were all delivered on time, on budget, to a very high quality standard and worked straight out of the yard. We did sea trials, the handover ceremony then went to load the first cargo and that was that.
Nowadays their hydrodynamic modelling is still the best in the world in my opinion and the depth of design expertise second to none they have slashed production costs to stay competitive with Korean and Chinese yards and in terms of build quality they have been going down (to the point that they are largely exploiting a reputation they no longer merit) at the same time as build quality in many Chinese yards has been improving to the point that some of them are now very highly regarded on quality as well as price.
That is ships, but some of the modern Japanese audio gear reviewed by Amir is not especially impressive. In the case of audio I think it is more because the technologies have been commoditised and the market has evolved so that traditional hifi is very much a niche now. Some of the old Japanese names like Sony, Yamaha and Denon still seem very active and successful in the modern mainstream of BT and WiFi speakers, soundbars and headphones and do these products very well.

 

[Sal1950]

Or with mega powered US chariots more time at the pumps.

If you want horses, you gotta feed em.
That's just the basic math.
All it takes is a few minutes and a little cash.
Plenty of oil in the ground.

 

[Ilkless]

I have a soft spot for vintage Japanese gear when the major conglomerates were still players in the hifi scene. This meant excellent industrial design and build quality far beyond the reach of contemporary cottage industry players (think Naim or Linn) due to their R&D + production capabilities and economies of scale. As the Japanese bubble burst and stereo became less of an aspirational good worldwide, most of these firms have not produced any comparable equipment since (at least on build quality and industrial design - probably not measurements). I can only think of Esoteric and TAD. The latest Marantz and Denon stuff seem uninspiring, and my experiences with the PMx00x series highly-underwhelming. A well-cared-for PM6004 we had (and still have lying in the living room) failed twice within a year. Its volume and input knobs have an insipid, slippery feel that vaguely resemble that of a cheap rotary encoder, except without the performance of digital attenuation (because it uses the standard ALPS pot; not sure about the input selector). The switches feel lightweight and have some play to them. Even the relays don't quite click as crisply or engage as quickly - though this likely falls well into confirmation bias territory and liable to be the result of aging.

In contrast, we used to have a PM-17 from 1997 (I was the third owner) that AFAIK failed once in over a decade of service and was fabulous to operate. After failing, it was professionally restored by the official Marantz tech in my country (who had undercharged us by mistake yet kindly honoured the price). It was also much better looking IMO with the curved rather than stepped front panel, and I preferred the bead-blasted look. I only sold it on (for a healthy 30% profit even including the restoration fees) because the idiot first owner had a local tech drill holes in the back panel to install a set of ugly and flimsy plastic-shrouded Radio Shack nickel binding posts so that he could bi-wire . The holes weren't even aligned with the original - and beautiful - knurled brass and copper binding posts . Placed on an open shelf at the back that separated our living and dining room, the sheer hideousness of the modified back panel really gnawed at me so I sold it on. In hindsight, if the official Marantz tech had been willing to take it in for restoration, I probably needn't have worried that there were changes other than the essentially cosmetic with the second pair of binding posts.

Some of my personal favourite vintage Japanese equipment (aesthetically speaking) include the Sony TA-E1 (and the accompanying power amp), Sony TA-NR10 (and the accompanying preamp, CD player and DAC), the Sony CDP-R1 (and accompanying power amp, preamp and DAC), Sony CDP-X5000, Marantz PM-15 of 1995 (my outright favourite if forced to pick), Marantz SC-5, Pioneer Exclusive M7, Pioneer Exclusive C5, Pioneer M-22, Yamaha GT-CD1, Technics SB-F1, Technics SE-A5000, Denon POA-8000 (and accompanying preamp), Denon POA-S1 (and accompanying preamp), and the Luxman DP-07

Special mentions (because they are likely the most obscure of this selection) include the Kenwood L-08M, Kyocera A-910 (and B-910 power amp).

Also too many Micro Seiki, Denon, Yamaha and Pioneer turntables to pick. Would just like to highlight the Marantz TT-1000 (OEM by Micro Seiki), which looks shockingly modern for a 40-year old turntable and could easily pass off as a new release. Testament to the R&D, industrial design and manufacturing abilities of these firms.

 

[Frank Dernie]

Garrard went to a Japanese OEM when Technics and Pioneer told dealers here that if they didn't stock their turntables they couldn't have the amplifiers and cassette decks everybody wanted.
I only looked at one item, which they OEMed for Pioneer as a fairly expensive but not battleship product.
I would say 95% of the budget had been spent on presentation and control feel.
The main level control was a large machined ally knob driving a pressed steel disc spring loaded against the inner chassis with silicone grease between them. It felt super but the pot itself was a cheap preset and the end of this lovely feeling control was a screwdriver flat going into the preset.
So my experience of middle range Japanese product in the mid 1970s was "all show, no go" FWIW.
OTOH the Sony DAC I own is exquisitely made but from the 1980s.

 

[Willem]

My parents had a Micro Seiki DQX-500 turntable and a Luxman R1050 receiver. Both were of extraordinary quality, and sounded the part.

 

[Ilkless]

Garrard went to a Japanese OEM when Technics and Pioneer told dealers here that if they didn't stock their turntables they couldn't have the amplifiers and cassette decks everybody wanted.
I only looked at one item, which they OEMed for Pioneer as a fairly expensive but not battleship product.
I would say 95% of the budget had been spent on presentation and control feel.
The main level control was a large machined ally knob driving a pressed steel disc spring loaded against the inner chassis with silicone grease between them. It felt super but the pot itself was a cheap preset and the end of this lovely feeling control was a screwdriver flat going into the preset.
So my experience of middle range Japanese product in the mid 1970s was "all show, no go" FWIW.
OTOH the Sony DAC I own is exquisitely made but from the 1980s.

Which Sony DAC is it?

I can't speak for the 70s, my experience is confined to the 80s and 90s (which, in 2019, are I reckon pretty much 'vintage'). I've found the build quality of mid-range equipment (Marantz PM-1x, Sony ES etc) upwards very good, especially in the mid-90s vs the prices charged (and currently trade for on the resale market). I think the Marantz PM-14, 15, 16 and 17 fly under the radar compared to the heavily-mythologised Sansui and Sony ES stuff.

 

[Dialectic]

OTOH the Sony DAC I own is exquisitely made but from the 1980s.

No to get off topic, but I'm sure that despite its vintage, it's still much better than a totaldac.

 

[jaykay77]

Admitted 80's and early 90's Yamaha fanboy here...

I recently purchased a mint condition mx1000u off of ebay.

It is the quietest amp i've ever owned - by far, and easily the most powerful - i've seen over 340 watts on the gauges into my dynaudios...no signs of clipping.

I've owned krell and adcoms with similar rated power output and they can't come close to hanging with this unit.

No need to mention how cool the digital meters are...total tits!

 

[BigVU's]

What ya think, worth 375 plus what ever mod/maintenance and updates to repair?

 

[Zerimas]

What ya think, worth 375 plus what ever mod/maintenance and updates to repair?
View attachment 31449View attachment 31450

I have no idea, but it sure does look cool. Those are some big heatsinks and what I believe are transformers.

 

[BigVU's]

yeah man, looks clean but dirty if that is even possible, those patina'd honker transformers look vintage, look cool. The heatsinks are for real and it's not aluminum wafer land in there. But can it be revived? Should it be? It has Big VU's!

Any one know a good stereo amp electrician in this place?

 

[Zerimas]

yeah man, looks clean but dirty if that is even possible, those patina'd honker transformers look vintage, look cool. The heatsinks are for real and it's not aluminum wafer land in there. But can it be revived? Should it be? It has Big VU's!

Any one know a good stereo amp electrician in this place?

I found a 1980 Pioneer SX-3800 in the electronics recycling. All it need was a bit of cleaning an it works. If this this is built to similar standards I imagine it probably works just fine.

It has big VUs and that is your username (which is pretty amusing). I am pretty sure it fate for you to buy that. I am after a Pioneer M-90 or M-91 (matches my C-90 preamp—which I really like), but the darn things are so expensive and I don't need that much power. My found SX-3800 currently serves as the power for my system. Even at a probably conservative valuation of 60w it is still more power than I need to drive my Realistic Mach One speakers (which are 90+dB/w/m sensitive). I never even come close to maxing out the volume knob.

 

[BigVU's]

Right! I have been panning for Big VU's - 2 Channel. There are the typical budget vintage models like this one, Onkyo M's, Technics SE's, Sony N77, and that's if you can call it budget if you have to dial it back together and these are still going for more than what they went for back when they came out.

The good stuff - well the expensive stuff let's say, like the Luxman, Accuphase, and McIntosh's are like completely out of my range. I am not there yet.

I'd put Big Analog VU's on everything though, the refrigerator, the thermostat, the doorbell, ok, I know being ridiculous. I do miss that in today's mid range market. It's one of those iconic associations for me and seems to bring a touch of class to an amplifier in my opinion.

It may fail amrim's gauntlet miserably, but I would forgive it's imperfections for its coolness factor... and convince my self they are best sounding ever! haha!

 

[Zerimas]

>It may fail amrim's gauntlet miserably, but I would forgive it's imperfections for its coolness factor... and convince my self they are best sounding ever! haha!

You know what though? They'll probably don't measure to badly at all. I'm sure there are some new and very expensive amps that measure much worse and yet reviewers rave about the sound. They also don't have big VUs.

 

[Sal1950]

But can it be revived? Should it be? It has Big VU's!

Good questions. You'll have near $500 in it after shipping, if it works you might be OK, if not it could be very expensive.
I know it's too far away to sent to @restorer-john Lets see what he thinks.
Not a lot of folk want to work on the old stuff and they aren't cheap.

 

[Eirikur]

I've been thinking about an oldie like the Onkyo M5590 + pre-amp

however... this could be lurking inside

which in turn leads to some restoration

Another consideration is the pre-amp: most don't come with a remote control option!

 

[Eirikur]

Or perhaps rob a bank an get a new Technics SR-R1 for a mere € 12,999

Plus of course the preamp SU-R1 for just over half of that (€ 6,999)

A man can dream right?
I for one am happy that Technics/Panasonic are making these again!

 

[Wombat]

I've been thinking about an oldie like the Onkyo M5590 + pre-amp

however... this could be lurking inside

which in turn leads to some restoration

Another consideration is the pre-amp: most don't come with a remote control option!

Do you have legs?

 

[Sal1950]

however... this could be lurking inside

Don't that make you want to cry.