Welcome your bake-off.
BTW, @amirm has still come about a mini digital amp that measures well at a good price.
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Topping PA3: subjective impressions
- Thread starter SEKLEM
- Start date
Welcome your bake-off.
BTW, @amirm has still come about a mini digital amp that measures well at a good price.
- Thread Starter
- #42
It will be about another week or two. I’ll make a separate thread.
Finding a high performance amplifier for cheap is going to be difficult. Truth is, you get what you pay for. But, when you’re spending this little money you probably aren’t going to be that discerning. In the comparison I performed the difference between a $800 class AB amplifier and the $100 class D amplifier were virtually indiscernible to me on relatively high end speakers.
Hello, I have had a SA-50 on my desk a few years ago.
I remember having issues caused by excessive gain (at least this is my impression):
a) it was way too loud for desktop use once out of the channel-imbalance range. So in fact, sometimes I had to lower the volume via software just to have the ability to turn the knob of the amp in its more comfortable range
b) it was noisy at high volumes. I have tried it with a preamp, well a O2 headphone amp actually, mostly because I wanted to make sure the O2 was good for this application before buying a power amp.
With the volume knob crancked to 100% on the SA-50, a very noticeable EMI style interference would come out of my speakers. This was happening independently from the volume on the O2.
It was definitely not a bad amp especially considering the price, still I would not recommend it today. It just did its job, better than some computer style speakers for sure. I enjoyed using this amp (despite some flaws) for quite a few months before upgrading.
I am in fact glad to see that smsl now has some little icepower based amps in its catalogue.
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- Feb 5, 2019
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Absolutely, that is the strong point of that little amplifier.
I had to send back a FX-Audio D802C Pro and an Alientek D8 which caused infamous hiss in my speakers. No more luck with a D802 I borrowed. The same kind of nasty "fffrrrrrrrrrrrr" noise you get when connecting two soundcards from the same PC to the same amp.
The AD18 is not 100% quiet but at least -20dB compared to the two others so I kept it. Silent one meter away where I live.
- Thread Starter
- #45
I have a pretty good feeling I’ll be keeping the AD18 in use for the bedroom setup. It’s so small and the features are less quirky than the DX3 Pro. I’ll go more into that in the upcoming comparison. Wish I had an MX3 to compare, perhaps I’ll get lucky and find one of those used as well.
sorry, anxiously awating your review.
- Thread Starter
- #49
I’ll check tonight. I seem to recall the hiss was persistent regardless of level with no change regardless of level adjustment, probably indicative of the high gain design.
- Thread Starter
- #50
So I have checked again to verify, the PA3 has a hiss of consistent output regardless of the position of the volume adjustment. With the speakers I am using, which are 85dB 1w/1m and about 2 foot from my listening position. the hiss is very minimal. It doesn’t buzz, just a soft hiss. The volume knob is quiet and doesn't appear to make any noise of its own when making adjustments.
The PA3 has two inputs. When switching between inputs there is a light pop through the speakers when the level is set to max. This is likely due to the relay switch which can also be heard clicking inside the PA3 chassis. The physical relay click is actually louder than the light pop heard from the speakers, again with the level set at max.
Hello guys , my name is Nick and I'm new member to the forum .
Sorry if my question have been answered before, if so I didn't notice it.
I own an indeed tda7498 amp and the smsl sa98e that both have the same chip .
I'm running into a problem with both of them , at very low volume , but really low I can only get music from one speaker, and then I have to increase the volume to get music from the other side. Most of the people will think that maybe is the speakers or the input device.
To be more specific, indeed amp first coming up the left channel and with the smsl sa98e first was the right.
Input was through topping d10 dac and I have even try the Logitech bt MODULE without the dac and still does the same thing.
Have you ever guys had the same issue?
Is that probably defected volume potentiometer or something else ?
I have already order an alps micro potentiometer to replace at my indeed amp to see if I can fix that.
I spoke with indeed and they said defected potentiometer and I was sure , but after my smsl did the same then I thought that maybe is something else.
Any idea guys ?
Thank you very much
Sorry if my question have been answered before, if so I didn't notice it.
I own an indeed tda7498 amp and the smsl sa98e that both have the same chip .
I'm running into a problem with both of them , at very low volume , but really low I can only get music from one speaker, and then I have to increase the volume to get music from the other side. Most of the people will think that maybe is the speakers or the input device.
To be more specific, indeed amp first coming up the left channel and with the smsl sa98e first was the right.
Input was through topping d10 dac and I have even try the Logitech bt MODULE without the dac and still does the same thing.
Have you ever guys had the same issue?
Is that probably defected volume potentiometer or something else ?
I have already order an alps micro potentiometer to replace at my indeed amp to see if I can fix that.
I spoke with indeed and they said defected potentiometer and I was sure , but after my smsl did the same then I thought that maybe is something else.
Any idea guys ?
Thank you very much
Hi Nick. It is unfortunate you have the same issue with two different amplifiers. It is not uncommon for analog volume pots to be non-linear at the very lowest volumes, but this problem is usually much more noticeable in headphone amps, especially when driving very efficient in ear monitors which play quite loud even at the lowest volume settings. I believe that is one reason so many headphone amps have hi/lo gain switches, so that you do not use that often unbalanced part of the pot. I have owned headphone amps with this problem and it is very annoying.
With speaker amps I do not think it is as common an issue because speakers do not vary quite as much in efficiency. However, it is likely that if your speakers are highly efficient that it could be an issue if your listening position is very close to them, even if your amp was working within its specifications.
When I had this problem with headphone amps my solution was to turn the volume of the source down so that the non-linear part of the pot was below audibility. Your D10 does not I think have an output volume control, but if your computer or whatever feeds the D10 does you could see if that solves the issue.
I have the 2018 version of the same Indeed amp myself and like it a lot. The eBay listing says the Indeed amp has an input sensitivity of 200mv. I do not know how well that matches with the D10's output.
I used mine primarily as a power amp connected to the Preamp-outs of my Atom Headphone amp. In that use I just set the Indeed at a high volume level and used the Atom to control the volume. I do not have the Indeed connected at the moment so I cannot check its linearity, but I do not remember ever noticing the non-linear pot problem on mine.
With speaker amps I do not think it is as common an issue because speakers do not vary quite as much in efficiency. However, it is likely that if your speakers are highly efficient that it could be an issue if your listening position is very close to them, even if your amp was working within its specifications.
When I had this problem with headphone amps my solution was to turn the volume of the source down so that the non-linear part of the pot was below audibility. Your D10 does not I think have an output volume control, but if your computer or whatever feeds the D10 does you could see if that solves the issue.
I have the 2018 version of the same Indeed amp myself and like it a lot. The eBay listing says the Indeed amp has an input sensitivity of 200mv. I do not know how well that matches with the D10's output.
I used mine primarily as a power amp connected to the Preamp-outs of my Atom Headphone amp. In that use I just set the Indeed at a high volume level and used the Atom to control the volume. I do not have the Indeed connected at the moment so I cannot check its linearity, but I do not remember ever noticing the non-linear pot problem on mine.
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Hello again and thanks for the reply.
I use these amps with 3 different set of my speakers and all doing the exact same thing.
3 sets are 89db sensitivity and the other set 86db .
I have a feeling that these amps can give you the full power at 200mv input and that's the problem.
My d10 does 2,1vrms output I think so you actually have the full power at 1/4 of the volume.
Do you think that a better quality potentiometer will fix the problem or not ?
The indeed manufacturer said that I need 20kΩ potentiometer, double gang. My thinking was , what about if I put 50kΩ that will make my volume more micrometric or not ?
I really want to solve the problem as I really love the indeed heaps too . NO compare with the smsl sa98e .
I use these amps with 3 different set of my speakers and all doing the exact same thing.
3 sets are 89db sensitivity and the other set 86db .
I have a feeling that these amps can give you the full power at 200mv input and that's the problem.
My d10 does 2,1vrms output I think so you actually have the full power at 1/4 of the volume.
Do you think that a better quality potentiometer will fix the problem or not ?
The indeed manufacturer said that I need 20kΩ potentiometer, double gang. My thinking was , what about if I put 50kΩ that will make my volume more micrometric or not ?
I really want to solve the problem as I really love the indeed heaps too . NO compare with the smsl sa98e .
I do not have a D10 but I have a D50 and will try listening to my Indeed amp through it later today to see if I hear an imbalance at the lowest volumes when the D50 output is maxed.
If you are correct about getting full volume at 1/4 turn then that is, for me, also a very annoying problem that, as you point out will not be solved by installing a perfect POT with the same value. My D50 DAC is always set at 5dB down specifically to allow me more range in my amplifiers volume controls. Alternately I can lower the volume of the USB out on my PC, but I am paranoid about maxing that by accident.
If your amp is not defective but just a mismatch with the D10, I would not change the volume control. It seems simpler and safer to add a passive volume control or preamp between the DAC and Amp. They are cheap, would solve the issue with both of your amps, and should not degrade the sound at all. You could also just put a couple of resisters after the D10 to pad down the output. Or, buy a good cheap headphone amp that has variable line outs.
If you are correct about getting full volume at 1/4 turn then that is, for me, also a very annoying problem that, as you point out will not be solved by installing a perfect POT with the same value. My D50 DAC is always set at 5dB down specifically to allow me more range in my amplifiers volume controls. Alternately I can lower the volume of the USB out on my PC, but I am paranoid about maxing that by accident.
If your amp is not defective but just a mismatch with the D10, I would not change the volume control. It seems simpler and safer to add a passive volume control or preamp between the DAC and Amp. They are cheap, would solve the issue with both of your amps, and should not degrade the sound at all. You could also just put a couple of resisters after the D10 to pad down the output. Or, buy a good cheap headphone amp that has variable line outs.
Nick I just hooked up my D50 directly to my Indeed TDA7498 amp. I do get one channel (the right) going silent a bit before the other when I turn the volume all the way down. These are desktop speakers and since I sit very close I can see how it could be a problem if I used them this way.
When I turn the D50's output down 5dB I no longer hear the imbalance, but, since I listen softly I would only ever use the first quarter turn of the volume control even 5dB down. 10-15dB down lets me make more precise volume adjustments.
In my setup I use any DAC I want (I have too many) and feed it into a Pre-Amp/Headphone amp with variable line out (My 2 favorites at the moment are the JDS Atom and a Xiangsheng DAC-01a). I set the Indeed amp's pot at a medium high level and just leave it there, controlling volume with the preamp.
When I turn the D50's output down 5dB I no longer hear the imbalance, but, since I listen softly I would only ever use the first quarter turn of the volume control even 5dB down. 10-15dB down lets me make more precise volume adjustments.
In my setup I use any DAC I want (I have too many) and feed it into a Pre-Amp/Headphone amp with variable line out (My 2 favorites at the moment are the JDS Atom and a Xiangsheng DAC-01a). I set the Indeed amp's pot at a medium high level and just leave it there, controlling volume with the preamp.
Wow so I think is all of them like that .
Actually my one connected on bookshelf speakers it's really bad as I can't listen to low level that I some times I want to relax, because one speaker only work .
So at the point that both speaker work is too loud for my meditation mood .
So what can be the issue cause I think everything start from the amp .
Is the design, chip , potentiometer ?
I don't think that this is normal even if you have 2v input signal.
Now you'll tell me this is what you get with 100 dollars, and I'll agree .
I'll give it a try to my one to replace the potentiometer with better one to see if I can have any improvement and I'll let you know .
So if I understand well you said is good to use dac with adjustable volume ?
I also have a Chinese tube preamp that I hook up to the indeed, set the volume half way to indeed and try to play with the pre amp .
Results was exactly the same
I really want to find out ......
Thank you very much.
Actually my one connected on bookshelf speakers it's really bad as I can't listen to low level that I some times I want to relax, because one speaker only work .
So at the point that both speaker work is too loud for my meditation mood .
So what can be the issue cause I think everything start from the amp .
Is the design, chip , potentiometer ?
I don't think that this is normal even if you have 2v input signal.
Now you'll tell me this is what you get with 100 dollars, and I'll agree .
I'll give it a try to my one to replace the potentiometer with better one to see if I can have any improvement and I'll let you know .
So if I understand well you said is good to use dac with adjustable volume ?
I also have a Chinese tube preamp that I hook up to the indeed, set the volume half way to indeed and try to play with the pre amp .
Results was exactly the same
I really want to find out ......
Thank you very much.
Well Nick, in my system with my Indeed amp I am certain that the problem is the high gain of the Indeed amp coupled with the normal performance of inexpensive analog potentiometers in their first millimeter of travel. It is certainly possible that the pot on your amp is worse than normal.
If you used a digital pot it would solve the problem, but with an analog pot that would fit in the chassis your results would probably depend on being lucky and finding a perfect one.
If you used a digital pot it would solve the problem, but with an analog pot that would fit in the chassis your results would probably depend on being lucky and finding a perfect one.
True , but I already order an alps 20kohm potentiometer that fits in . 6 solders and done it will take only 15 minutes and 10 dollars.
I will post here again the results.
Fingers crossed and thank you very much for the information and the beautiful sharing.
I will post here again the results.
Fingers crossed and thank you very much for the information and the beautiful sharing.
Nick, did it work? -Fingers Crossed.
Hello again guys .
Unfortunately no news yet as I've been very busy. I have a feeling that I'm not going to see any improvement as the same problem was with the smsl amp . Only amps that work ok with me is the ones that have digital potentiometer. But still when I'll have news I'll let you know.
Unfortunately no news yet as I've been very busy. I have a feeling that I'm not going to see any improvement as the same problem was with the smsl amp . Only amps that work ok with me is the ones that have digital potentiometer. But still when I'll have news I'll let you know.