Why is audio so angry?

[fulffy512]

The difference between FLAC and MP3 is nothing like as pronounced as some want us to believe. I can discern a difference with some recordings but not for a majority and not reliably. And in no cases does good quality MP3 sound any worse than FLAC for normal listening in my view. If you need to concentrate hard and still cannot identify differences between FLAC and MP3 with total reliability (in my experience that is everyone I know if they're honest) then that tells its own story. I use FLAC now as memory is cheap and I tell myself it is better but I am playing the same psychological mind game as sighted comparisons and think MP3 is one of the most unfairly maligned technologies in audio.

I've done few blind and accidental blind tests on industrial and ambient i found few killer samples on 256 - 320 that stuck out like a sore thumb, like a puffy noise or odd clicks an pops not in the flac i transcoded.

I have 4 folders on my HDD that are isolated lossy tracks that have issues i kept in case i do a true DBT on foobar.

 

[flipflop]

Simply, money.

If you have been duped into spending $kk on some highly dubious premise you will, in all likelihood, get extremely agitated at the possibility that you have been fooled into parting with a sum of money well beyond the true worth of the purchase. It therefore becomes necessary to "talk-up" and defend the value of your investment.

Consider what would happen if, hypothetically, it was demonstrated – beyond a doubt – that any piece of audio kit (other than transducers) could be fully specified numerically and there was no further need for debate. The value of a lot of kit would tumble to near-nothing and, probably, an awful lot of litigation would ensue.

It is this kind of concern that, to my mind, drives an awful lot of the nonsense.

What you're describing is known as 'post-purchase rationalization'. The Wikipedia article is pretty good: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choice-supportive_bias

 

[ahofer]

I've done those mp3 tests. it was easy for me to tell the files below 320, but much harder up from there. Above 50%, but not enough.

 

[jsrtheta]

Simply, money.

If you have been duped into spending $kk on some highly dubious premise you will, in all likelihood, get extremely agitated at the possibility that you have been fooled into parting with a sum of money well beyond the true worth of the purchase. It therefore becomes necessary to "talk-up" and defend the value of your investment.

Consider what would happen if, hypothetically, it was demonstrated – beyond a doubt – that any piece of audio kit (other than transducers) could be fully specified numerically and there was no further need for debate. The value of a lot of kit would tumble to near-nothing and, probably, an awful lot of litigation would ensue.

It is this kind of concern that, to my mind, drives an awful lot of the nonsense.

Not money - pride.

 

[kevinh]

DBT test mentioned earlier:

 

[StevenEleven]

Depending on the belief system, people will even compete to see who is more humble as a way of achieving status. It never ends, it’s human nature, and from a logical perspective, ridiculous. But that’s how we’re wired. Me personally I’m not either saying I’m more humble or better than anyone else. Which puts me on the highest plane of spiritual elevation. Without even trying. I don’t even think about it. I just go about my day in my own superior fashion.

 

[fulffy512]

What about the audiophile reviewers that are big online?, they lash out just as bad when TOTL gear is called out as audio woo. One i know tired to discredit DBT on IEM's because his reviews all reek with favouring stuff in the $600 - 2000 area.

 

[Tup3x]

I've done few blind and accidental blind tests on industrial and ambient i found few killer samples on 256 - 320 that stuck out like a sore thumb, like a puffy noise or odd clicks an pops not in the flac i transcoded.

I have 4 folders on my HDD that are isolated lossy tracks that have issues i kept in case i do a true DBT on foobar.

Some stuff compresses well and some just don't. Kinda like when compressing image with high frequency info - either large file size or visible compression artifacts. On the other hand image with lots of solid areas compresses really well losslessly. Audio has comparable situations.

In some cases flac track can have average bitrate around 320 Kbps. When that happens chances are that even MP3 track at 320 Kbps would sound very good.

 

[fulffy512]

Some stuff compresses well and some just don't. Kinda like when compressing image with high frequency info - either large file size or visible compression artifacts. On the other hand image with lots of solid areas compresses really well losslessly. Audio has comparable situations.

In some cases flac track can have average bitrate around 320 Kbps. When that happens chances are that even MP3 track at 320 Kbps would sound very good.

Opus/Musepack deal much better with dense musical content, large bit rate with no artifacts. With Flac that low you could get away with 80 ~ 130kbit with no loss at all, i have some lossless that reaches 200 to 300kbit/s let alone 320kbps.

The issue with AAC/Ogg they make no use of extra settings to aid compression or make use of there 500k modes. While MP3 is a poorly made codec where it being a MDCT/poly phase filter codec makes it very bad for dense complex music were even a 500k mode won't save it even if it had one.

Unlike there rest musepack can reach to 1300kbps if it needs the bit rate boost, Some very harsh stuff i tested reached 780kbps for 30s in one passage on it.

 

[Sal1950]

The difference between FLAC and MP3 is nothing like as pronounced as some want us to believe. I can discern a difference with some recordings but not for a majority and not reliably. And in no cases does good quality MP3 sound any worse than FLAC for normal listening in my view.

I recently spend 2 months comparing Spotify's 320 MP3 against Qobuz highest HD offerings. Without doing level matched instant A/B comparisons, I couldn't notice any difference of import in casual listening. So at almost 3x the monthly cost I took a pass on Qobuz for now. I'll definitely take another look if and when they expand their multich offering, which is very limited at time. Really like to see them open the door much wider with that multich catalog, for now they have a exclusive on that. AFAIK. Otherwise for now streaming is still mainly for casual listening, if I want the best of a recording, I'll get a disc to add to the harddrive library.
(But I have to admit, the convenience of the one stop offering of a streaming app really brings out the lazy in me. I find myself opening the media player for my library less and less.}

 

[Thomas savage]

Depending on the belief system, people will even compete to see who is more humble as a way of achieving status. It never ends, it’s human nature, and from a logical perspective, ridiculous. But that’s how we’re wired. Me personally I’m not either saying I’m more humble or better than anyone else. Which puts me on the highest plane of spiritual elevation. Without even trying. I don’t even think about it. I just go about my day in my own superior fashion.

" Superior fashion "

I think me and @amirm have you well beat on that ,

I will leave it to you to work out who's who.

 

[Sal1950]

I will leave it to you to work out who's who.

THOMAS! You have to,
1. Get a woman
2. Get back to work.
3. Put away the intoxicants.
This sitting around the keyboard is starting to disturb your thought processes.

 

[Wombat]

THOMAS! You have to,
1. Get a woman
2. Get back to work.
3. Put away the intoxicants.
This sitting around the keyboard is starting to disturb your thought processes.

Just like yourself?

 

[Wombat]

" Superior fashion "

I think me and @amirm have you well beat on that ,

View attachment 29351
I will leave it to you to work out who's who.

Be aware that there is a member out there who could infer there is a homophobic slur, here.

 

[jsrtheta]

" Superior fashion "

I think me and @amirm have you well beat on that ,

View attachment 29351
I will leave it to you to work out who's who.

We should talk.

 

[Wombat]

We should talk.

See post above.

 

[Thomas savage]

THOMAS! You have to,
1. Get a woman
2. Get back to work.
3. Put away the intoxicants.
This sitting around the keyboard is starting to disturb your thought processes.

1 and 3 are being taken care of , 2 unfortunately is proving a little more difficult.

 

[Blumlein 88]

1 and 3 are being taken care of , 2 unfortunately is proving a little more difficult.

So does this mean you are at a vulnerable time when Amir could hire you for permanent moderator? Would you consider moving to the states? Amir has that camper van so living accommodations would be available and very inexpensive. Amir needs to stay out of it and do more testing anyway.

If the woman isn't amenable to moving to the US, they have some very nice women in the Pacific Northwest.

 

[Wombat]

1 and 3 are being taken care of , 2 unfortunately is proving a little more difficult.

Re 2. Can you wangle 'toy boy'?

 

[Thomas savage]

We should talk.

Amir's more into the outfit creation, your best off talking to him for advice.