• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Review and Measurements of Paradigm PW-Link Streamer/DAC

batfunk

Active Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2019
Messages
182
Likes
152
Hi! Great site, I hope there will be more popular stereo amp and speakers reviews!
I bought a pw link but I don't know the best way to insert it in my setting. I listen to 95% of cd and digital files(flac 16 and 24 bits files, some DSD DoP).New Subwoofer may have probably Arc too(paradigm x15) or not(2 svs pb 1000).no subwoofer or pre out on my teac ai501amp.
Thanks!
pw link.gif
 

Hippocamp

Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2019
Messages
13
Likes
9
PW-Link arrived a couple of days ago. Just tested the optical in and out so far. Haven't tried streaming or room correction. Wanted to see if the digital chain works OK before setting up room correction

Laptop (Foobar/Tidal) --> D10 (USB in, optical out) --> PW-Link (optical in and out) --> SMSL SU8 --> Headphone amp

Of course, tried the setup first WITHOUT the PW-Link in the chain, and everything works perfectly, including preservation of high sampling rate in the USB-optical conversion at least up to 192K.

With the PW link in the chain, here's what I found.
1. 96 and 192K are downsampled to 48K
2. 88K is downsampled to 44
3. I get the same 250-500 ms of "garbage" noise at the beginning of tracks as discussed above (both using foobar and tidal). This happens whenever clicking on a new track, forwarding to a new track, changing positions within a track, or changing sample rates between tracks. The only good news is that there is no garbage noise during the transition between two tracks in a playlist of the same sample rate. This is true even for gapless transitions. So, for the transitions between tracks on the continuous section of Abbey Road, there are no problems at all -- smooth gapless playback (whew!). If you can handle a little digital noise whenever manually switching tracks or positions, then this is not a huge problem, since full album playback is fine once it gets started. I did try to add 1 sec of silence before starting a track. The noise was still present but, of course, it didn't intrude on the beginning of the song, so this might be a viable workaround.
4. I can find no way to make the digital output fixed volume. The suggestion above was to press mute and vol down for 5 sec. This does result in a confirmation beep, but it doesn't have any effect that I can find on the digital out. Volume still changes when pressing the buttons on the front of the unit. It is possible that this setting applies only to the analog out.
5. When in the "external source" mode (analog or digital in), the Android app has no effect on volume (which makes sense).
6. As discussed above, rebooting the machine resets the volume to default. The default level appears to be ~30% (10 clicks down to silence, 20 clicks up to max).

One thing that's not clear to me is the optimal volume setting -- a little below max? a little below default?
 

pjug

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 2, 2019
Messages
1,775
Likes
1,561
PW-Link arrived a couple of days ago. Just tested the optical in and out so far. Haven't tried streaming or room correction. Wanted to see if the digital chain works OK before setting up room correction

Laptop (Foobar/Tidal) --> D10 (USB in, optical out) --> PW-Link (optical in and out) --> SMSL SU8 --> Headphone amp

Of course, tried the setup first WITHOUT the PW-Link in the chain, and everything works perfectly, including preservation of high sampling rate in the USB-optical conversion at least up to 192K.

With the PW link in the chain, here's what I found.
1. 96 and 192K are downsampled to 48K
2. 88K is downsampled to 44
3. I get the same 250-500 ms of "garbage" noise at the beginning of tracks as discussed above (both using foobar and tidal). This happens whenever clicking on a new track, forwarding to a new track, changing positions within a track, or changing sample rates between tracks. The only good news is that there is no garbage noise during the transition between two tracks in a playlist of the same sample rate. This is true even for gapless transitions. So, for the transitions between tracks on the continuous section of Abbey Road, there are no problems at all -- smooth gapless playback (whew!). If you can handle a little digital noise whenever manually switching tracks or positions, then this is not a huge problem, since full album playback is fine once it gets started. I did try to add 1 sec of silence before starting a track. The noise was still present but, of course, it didn't intrude on the beginning of the song, so this might be a viable workaround.
4. I can find no way to make the digital output fixed volume. The suggestion above was to press mute and vol down for 5 sec. This does result in a confirmation beep, but it doesn't have any effect that I can find on the digital out. Volume still changes when pressing the buttons on the front of the unit. It is possible that this setting applies only to the analog out.
5. When in the "external source" mode (analog or digital in), the Android app has no effect on volume (which makes sense).
6. As discussed above, rebooting the machine resets the volume to default. The default level appears to be ~30% (10 clicks down to silence, 20 clicks up to max).

One thing that's not clear to me is the optimal volume setting -- a little below max? a little below default?

Thanks for this info. Good of you to help us get a better handle on what is happening with the pops. I can live with this.

I hope you can get the fixed volume with digital output working. I have only been using the analog output but I planned to switch to an external DAC. It would be a real bummer if I can't have fixed volume.
 

pjug

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 2, 2019
Messages
1,775
Likes
1,561
The only good news is that there is no garbage noise during the transition between two tracks in a playlist of the same sample rate. This is true even for gapless transitions. So, for the transitions between tracks on the continuous section of Abbey Road, there are no problems at all -- smooth gapless playback (whew!).

Unfortunately I don't think this is always true. After having no noticeable pops between tracks for quite a while, I am hearing them between every track in this album (FWIW Big Mama Thorton Stronger Than Dirt). Played from Deezer on Bluesound Node through the PW Link with ARC, analog out from the PW Link.
https://www.deezer.com/en/album/51433472

edit: I get the pops playing lossy version of same album from Amazon too. It's not clear if it has to do with the album or something changed with the PW Link. Have to play more music I guess.
 
Last edited:

invaderzim

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2018
Messages
320
Likes
563
Location
NorCal
that isn't good news at all. My first thought was to not open it and sell it as new factory sealed on ebay but I'd feel bad sticking someone with that without putting a note in the description.
 

GGroch

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 7, 2018
Messages
1,059
Likes
2,049
Location
Denver, Colorado
......I am hearing them between every track in this album......Played from Deezer on Bluesound Node through the PW Link with ARC, analog out from the PW Link....

Are you using the analog output of the Bluesound Node? I have never had any issues through analog on my PW/Link.

I am not sure there is a technical advantage to using the Node's Toslink output instead of analog when the PW/Link is going to re-sample anyway. The issues reported so far seem to happen mostly when using an external streaming device's (either Node or Squeezebox) Toslink out.

I have had issues similar to those described here when using my Yulong D200 DAC with a Chromecast Audio Toslink output. That is, noise or dropouts between tracks. I think it had to do with how the streaming service and the CCA handled gaps. Other DACs handled the CCA fine. But, since I never heard any objective difference between the CCA analog and Toslink outputs in terms of quality...I just used analog out instead of worrying about it if there was an issue.
 

pjug

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 2, 2019
Messages
1,775
Likes
1,561
Are you using the analog output of the Bluesound Node? I have never had any issues through analog on my PW/Link.

I am not sure there is a technical advantage to using the Node's Toslink output instead of analog when the PW/Link is going to re-sample anyway. The issues reported so far seem to happen mostly when using an external streaming device's (either Node or Squeezebox) Toslink out.

I have had issues similar to those described here when using my Yulong D200 DAC with a Chromecast Audio Toslink output. That is, noise or dropouts between tracks. I think it had to do with how the streaming service and the CCA handled gaps. Other DACs handled the CCA fine. But, since I never heard any objective difference between the CCA analog and Toslink outputs in terms of quality...I just used analog out instead of worrying about it if there was an issue.

I am using optical out from the Node. It does not seem to be related to that particular album; I am just getting pops between album tracks now, when I hadn't been having the issue for a while (or at least I was not noticing them). Earlier today I did disconnect the optical cable so I could re-route it and then reconnected it. Hard to believe that would do anything.
 

invaderzim

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2018
Messages
320
Likes
563
Location
NorCal
Are you using the analog output of the Bluesound Node? I have never had any issues through analog on my PW/Link.

I am not sure there is a technical advantage to using the Node's Toslink output instead of analog when the PW/Link is going to re-sample anyway. The issues reported so far seem to happen mostly when using an external streaming device's (either Node or Squeezebox) Toslink out.

On mine it did the sound between songs when playing a CD on a Sony bluray player connected to the optical input on the PW/Link. I tested it that way because I thought it might be some signal from the squeezebox that the Link didn't like.

I guess it might not be a big deal but using the analog in and out doesn't it have to go from analog to digital then process the sound then back to analog again?
 

pjug

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 2, 2019
Messages
1,775
Likes
1,561
I guess it might not be a big deal but using the analog in and out doesn't it have to go from analog to digital then process the sound then back to analog again?
I agree it would be disappointing to have to use it with analog input. Not sure about the PW Link but some of the stuff reviewed here has far worse performance with analog input. The all digital processing is part of what makes this attractive.
 
Last edited:

pjug

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 2, 2019
Messages
1,775
Likes
1,561
I hope they will have a firmware update fix this, although it seems unlikely. If there is no option for fixed volume with digital output then that should be remedied as well. Probably I will not end up using the PW Link for playing music. I'm still glad I bought it, though, and I will not want to return it. I have subwoofers in 3 rooms and this thing is great for setting them up.
 

GGroch

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 7, 2018
Messages
1,059
Likes
2,049
Location
Denver, Colorado
......I guess it might not be a big deal but using the analog in and out doesn't it have to go from analog to digital then process the sound then back to analog again?

I understand your point, but because Amir did not test the analog inputs we would be guessing. Toslink is not always better, see Amir's test of the Bluesound Node 2i (not the same model as pjug's I think). We do know that you and pjug objectively experienced distortion from the Toslink that did not show in the tests. I believe Amir's tests were accurate, but that they did not measure what happens between tracks, or using the same digital sources. Since you have experienced these Toslink problems, it would be nice if we had measurements using the PW/Link's analog inputs to compare. I will try Toslink from my Chromecast audio at some point and let you know what I hear with that combination.

Amir's tests of the PW/amp did use analog inputs, and the measurements are significantly worse than the PW/Link's Toslink. However, the PW/Amp has no line outputs so we do not know how much of this difference is due to the power-amp section. Amir measured both the analog and Play-Fi digital streaming inputs of the PW/amp and they were almost identical. The PW/amp measurements, while not great, are in line with measurements of other medium/low priced power amps...so I suspect the amp is the source of most of the difference, not the A/D/A or EQ processing circuitry. The distortion Amir measured in the PW/amp (.03%) is almost certainly inaudible. The SNAD of 70 dB is borderline audible, depending on the efficiency of your speakers and how quiet the room is.

I do not hear noise in my system using the PW/amp. I did hear audible hiss when I was 3 inches or closer to the speaker when I was using a Klipsch Powergate as a pre-amp on my main system. However, I just moved the PW/amp to my desktop, and using a Topping D50 DAC hear no hiss unless my ear is pressed against the tweeter. As my recent post on the PW/amp thread states....the improvement ARC made in both locations is huge.

My point is that before you relegate the PW/Link to set-up only use, (or donate it to Goodwill), you could try the analog inputs. If you use streaming sources like Deezer you could also compare the sound streamed directly through Play-Fi.

Of course, what we subjectively hear is always impacted by our expectations and doing a blind A/B/X comparison of Analog/Toslink inputs might be difficult. In my setups using the analog inputs made the most practical sense....so the theoretical performance difference between Toslink/Analog was not a consideration.
 
Last edited:

Jim777

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
May 28, 2019
Messages
124
Likes
203
Location
Greater Boston
I just received one of these to play with room correction. I only did a quick 5 point measurement and I wonder if my volume was loud enough while doing so, because it had trouble with the last measurement. Nevertheless, it came up with a measurement that appeared plausible given what I heard. Applying the correction flattened out the low end as expected, without going too bright either. This also helped a bit for stereo imaging because the two channels have different responses (one speaker is in a corner, the other not).

For the negative, I don't know how to remote control power, source or volume with a phone or Harmony. Using the analog output for now, it does not sound as good as my oppo 105. But my intention is to get a DAC/pre later. Also, I wish this did post-measurements, but I guess I can do that myself with REW or MathWorks' impulseResponseMeasurer

But the scary part is I got it to make crazy noise after a track change and it would not go away. This was with optical in at 192 and analog out. Now I hadn't installed Play-fi yet and I had ran ARC which had installed an update, so I assumed that I was all set. But then I did check out Play-fi and it installed two additional updates. Since then, I managed to make the PW-Link go silent on a rate change or something, but it has not scrambled up yet in this short period of time. In case it might help, I also changed the oppo settings to stick to fixed 192 instead of bitstream, and PCM for DSD instead of auto.

So I am still willing to give this a try, but beware of the same issues that have been brought up previously in this thread. Also, I wonder if a RME with REW isn't a better overall solution, even if the PW-Link room correction might be more capable.
 

GGroch

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 7, 2018
Messages
1,059
Likes
2,049
Location
Denver, Colorado
......For the negative, I don't know how to remote control power, source or volume with a phone or Harmony.....I also changed the oppo settings to stick to fixed 192 instead of bitstream, and PCM for DSD instead of auto.
......So I am still willing to give this a try, but beware of the same issues that have been brought up previously in this thread..

--I do not believe there is a way to remote control the volume unless you are streaming through Play-Fi...and the very strange Play-Fi app will do that. This is one of the reasons that I am using analog in because my Preamp is remote. If your Oppo adjusts volume on the optical out (like a Chromecast audio does) then you could control it there. Or you can switch to the Analog outputs of the Oppo if the remote controls that.

-- PCM is right, but 192k seems quite high for a sampling rate to the Optical in. The PW/Link is going to downsample that to 48K anyway, so if you are going to use the OPPO's toslink output, 48K would be the most logical rate to try first and least likely to cause the kind of distortion you heard. Its worth a try. The Oppo 105 only supports up to 96K on its own optical input.

-- The PW/Link is not designed to be powered totally off on a regular basis. Most streaming devices don't even have a real power switch because it takes so much time and energy for them to reboot. The Squeezebox, CCA, Bluesound Node, Sonos Amp, Klipsch Powergate (it has a sleep switch but not off) have no real power switch. I think it was a mistake for Paradigm to put one on the front of the PW/Link because using it causes frustration with beeps, volume adjustments, and boot time. It will go into standby on its own after about 20 minutes of silence (at least using the analog inputs).

Good Luck! and let us know how it goes.
 
Last edited:

fungd

Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2019
Messages
30
Likes
14
Just to add my experience with the PW Link:

- Using Toslink in/out with a digital streaming device (Raspberry Pi as a Squeezebox)
- The PW Link updated itself on two separate occasions as recently as two weeks ago.
- Using ARC, which has smoothed out the low end considerably. Downloaded the latest ARC 3.0? on my mac to do measurements, and the file uploaded to the Link seamlessly. I believe this means that the file format is backwards compatible as the Link is probably ARC 2.0.
- I experience the clicks between tracks, although I don't find them that objectionable, as they are quiet. Along with clicks I've noticed some minor truncation of the beginning of tracks along with clicks. I'm guessing there might be buffering issues in the implementation.
- My fixed volume WORKS via holding the mute and minus button down for 5 seconds. After getting the affirmative tone, the volume stays fixed. I tested it with the Play-Fi streaming app and the direct Toslink input.
- Regarding Play-Fi: For those of you who hate it, keep in mind that the app is trying to let you group various speakers together that you might have around your house, and as a result has an awkward interface. Once I set up my "group" I leave it active, and I reuse the configuration to control my streaming (via Tidal).
 

invaderzim

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 30, 2018
Messages
320
Likes
563
Location
NorCal
....
- The PW Link updated itself on two separate occasions as recently as two weeks ago.
....

That is encouraging, I was a bit worried with these sale prices that it was a dump and move on type sale for them.

I still haven't decided what to do with my replacement when it gets here. The more time that passes the more likely it will end up in the audio graveyard in the attic. If nothing else to avoid the love hate of the improvements to the sound vs the new annoyances. It is a lot easier to enjoy the audio you have if you don't know how it can sound better.
 

jhaider

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Jun 5, 2016
Messages
2,823
Likes
4,522
Yes, slope, frequency, and a lot more can be configured.
The new ARC Genesis for Windows & Mac can be downloaded here and has a demo mode.

There is a goodinterview with a subjective review and mfg interview for the Martin Logan Unison here. I believe it is identical to the PW/Link except for cosmetics.

Not quite the same. The Unison has a big feature upgrade: Airplay streaming. Play-Fi is useless to us: most of our music is on a MacOS server. I have a Unison and a couple Fortes around the house, running background speakers. They do skip a little more than Apple Airport Express units (smaller buffer?) and don't have Airplay 2 support, but for this application they're near ideal.

I'm also very impressed with ARC3 subjectively, though I haven't yet measured. The frequency tilt is a particularly welcome addition. Quick Measure is still a great value add. I will continue to complain in non-Anthem AVR or SSP review I ever do that the room correction is missing this key feature. Hopefully Dirac, Audyssey, and others will see the light.
 

GGroch

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Apr 7, 2018
Messages
1,059
Likes
2,049
Location
Denver, Colorado
Not quite the same. The Unison has a big feature upgrade: Airplay streaming....

Your right Jay. Thanks for the correction. I see from this that Anthem/Paradigm/ML chose not to add Airplay support to the PW series. This difference may explain why ML is maintaining full price on their streaming devices while the PW series is heavily discounted.. It appears that support for Airplay/Airplay2/Alexa compatiblity/ are up to the individual manufacturer to license and enable or not.

OTOH, it looks like $40-50 gets a used Airport Express or a Chromecast Audio, and Dots/Minis are nearly free now, ...so adding your preferred steaming option to any amp is no longer expensive. Decent room calibration is the rare commodity.
 
Last edited:

vin63

Member
Joined
Jul 8, 2019
Messages
12
Likes
12
If you use the fix volume output, is it below the 1.3 volt limit where distortion happens?
 
Top Bottom