This audio cable business is getting out of hand...

[LuckyLuke575]

Hold on you cable naysayers!!!

Who here can tell the sonic difference between the different AC cables in this recently posted youtube demo?

Funny enough, if I skip from the first "cheap" AC cable sound to the end "more expensive AC cable," I actually seem to perceive a difference, the sound of the more expensive cable seeming a bit fuller, richer.

But of course, until I actually tested them in a blind test, I would presume it's likely bias of some sort perceptual bias - e.g. having been told one sound is being played with a more expensive cable. Even just searching for differences can yield the perception of a difference, as we know.
I suppose one could to a quick blind test by having two tabs open for this video, and while eyes closed or somehow blinded, have someone else click between the cheap and expensive cable portions, to see how the guesses come out. (And even then, if one reliably identified the more expensive cable portion of the video as sounding better, you can't just trust that nothing about the making of the video wasn't playing a role).

No one should be spending $6k on a cable, I don't care what it can or can't do. People that spend money on this type of thing have serious audiophilitis and should contact a mental health professional immediately!

 

[majingotan]

My principle on cables is to buy something that's got a decent build and name behind it. This could be a reputable brand on Amazon, or Mogami or Canare. But those cables that go for hundreds or thousands of dollars are total bullshit e.g. Silver Dragon, 'diamond' HDMI and USB cables etc.

I've decided to use Mogami cable for all my headphone cables as the top end, but just the 4 core configuration. This comes in at around ~$90 for a custom made 10 ft / 3 m cable with nice sheathing and Neutrik termination for my HD 650s (although while I've been waiting for the cable to arrive from the US and pass through customs over here, I've been very happy with the stock OFC cable and 1 m, $8 OFC extension cable). I'd also probably buy Mogami interconnects if I every needed it.

I'm still to understand why 8 core or Litz UP-OCC could be objectively better? I have an 8 core cable gold and silver MMCX cable for my T3 IEMs, but that came in the box. The strange thing is that it terminated to a 3.5 mm TRS connection, so I'm wondering how all the cores work better than just a 3 core cable (which would be the minimum for TRS)? Its not even a balanced termination, so it seems like overkill (but I Iove using the cable nonetheless

I do not buy those 8 core or Litz UP-OCC litz because of the brain burn-in sound. In fact, they sound the same as the stock SPC cable that came with many IEMs. I buy them because I like their looks and ergonomics, and the Jewelry factor. I've demoed those crazy expensive DAPs, and they don't even sound 0.1% better than my iPod Touch when there's no EQ or software DSP involved.

 

[LuckyLuke575]

Hold on you cable naysayers!!!

Who here can tell the sonic difference between the different AC cables in this recently posted youtube demo?

Funny enough, if I skip from the first "cheap" AC cable sound to the end "more expensive AC cable," I actually seem to perceive a difference, the sound of the more expensive cable seeming a bit fuller, richer.

But of course, until I actually tested them in a blind test, I would presume it's likely bias of some sort perceptual bias - e.g. having been told one sound is being played with a more expensive cable. Even just searching for differences can yield the perception of a difference, as we know.
I suppose one could to a quick blind test by having two tabs open for this video, and while eyes closed or somehow blinded, have someone else click between the cheap and expensive cable portions, to see how the guesses come out. (And even then, if one reliably identified the more expensive cable portion of the video as sounding better, you can't just trust that nothing about the making of the video wasn't playing a role).

The music all sounds the same to me (listening with my audio setup).

I can't see how the AC cable can make any difference to the sound (at least perceptively). My logic would say that either the cable can power the device or not. Its like when I used a really cheap USB cable (one that was shipped with a shaver to act as a charging cable) to connect a DAC to my computer, the music would cut out intermittently, and when I used a better cable, then the music would play continuously.

 

[LuckyLuke575]

I do not buy those 8 core or Litz UP-OCC litz because of the brain burn-in sound. In fact, they sound the same as the stock SPC cable that came with many IEMs. I buy them because I like their looks and ergonomics, and the Jewelry factor. I've demoed those crazy expensive DAPs, and they don't even sound 0.1% better than my iPod Touch when there's no EQ or software DSP involved.

Yeah, the jewelry and form factor are definitely cool and make your earphones stand out. Also its good to know that the cable is top notch, so there's no sound quality loss/

Nice touch with the Hi-Res audio sticker

 

[majingotan]

Yeah, the jewelry and form factor are definitely cool and make your earphones stand out. Also its good to know that the cable is top notch, so there's no sound quality loss/

Nice touch with the Hi-Res audio sticker

Thanks. Ironically, it's not Hi-Res since iPod Touch can only do 16/44.8 . I don't think you'll lose sound quality on such short IEM cables 'cause even coat hanger works extremely well for transmitting analog audio to loudspeakers without sound quality loss. If an IEM cable can't deliver the right amount of current and voltage then obviously it's a bad cable. I haven't seen a stock IEM cable that can't properly deliver very small amounts of power hehe.

 

[jsrtheta]

A legal case would be difficult as these snake oil sellers would be able to find plenty of satisfied customers and references from "professional" reviewers etc and they would baffle the court with science (some of which would be valid but taken out of context and misrepresented.
There is enough rational and objective information about cables, those buying snake oil want to believe and psychology results in these things actually "working" for them since to an individual their perception becomes their reality.
And people wonder why the world of audiophilia is derided as a joke. Ultimately this part of the hobby and industry is a micro-niche existing in its echo chamber and an irrelevance even to most music lovers who do value good sound let alone the wider public. Which also probably has an influence on the interest of authorities. There are enough important things to keep them occupied without going after a micro-niche serving wealthy hobbyists who seem happy to be fooled by snake oil.

One quibble: While the law generally moves at a glacial pace when it comes to figuring out valid science, a number of improvements have been made in terms of screening good science from bad. And when it comes to cables, the science is pretty well defined.

So, while it is still extremely doubtful that anyone is about to storm the ramparts in a legal battle over cables and other woo, courts have gotten much better at excluding dubious science from consideration at trial. I think it would be very hard for woomeisters to defeat actual science. They would not even be able to testify, let alone be taken seriously. Since Daubert v. Merrell Dow Pharmaceuticals, Inc., 509 U.S. 579 (1993), a proponent of "novel" or "unaccepted" science (or any area subject to expert testimony, really) will have very tough going.

 

[jsrtheta]

Star quad cables will still provide additional common-mode rejection for single-ended cables. I suspect it does not matter in the (vast?) majority of home installations.

I've used them for more than 20 years, and they all still work great. Don't do anything to the sound, to be sure, but otherwise worth the investment.

Then again, I have other cables at least as old, and they still work fine too.

 

[Deleted member 12]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned these cables before, but I have to highly recommend the new Black Cat Coppertone cables by Chris Sommovigo.
These cables are priced at extremely reasonable pricing and can easily compete with cabling that are thousands of $$'s more! All of Chris's cables are hand made by Chris. Anyone considering a new cable loom, or just replacing their ic's or speaker cables...should give these a listen.

 

[SIY]

What do they do that (say) Amazon Basics or stuff from Guitar Center doesn't?

 

[VintageFlanker]

These cables are priced at extremely reasonable pricing and can easily compete with cabling that are thousands of $$'s more!

Come on guy... Saw this exact sentence a thousand times.

should give these a listen.

I don't know how to listen cables.

These cables are priced at extremely reasonable pricing

Found at 199$ for a pair of RCA cables. Is this some kind of joke?

 

[Deleted member 12]

Come on guy... Saw this exact sentence a thousand times.

I don't know how to listen cables.

Found at 199$ for a pair of RCA cables. Is this some kind of joke?

Maybe...just maybe, you could try and listen to these cables in your system..and then get back to me with the same statement...which I don't think you will....assuming, that is, you might have an open mind about the possibility that zip cord ( or whatever you favorite bulk wire from Home Depot ( or your local hardware store in Paris) is) can be bettered. Big assumption on my part, I get that.

 

[jsrtheta]

Maybe...just maybe, you could try and listen to these cables in your system..and then get back to me with the same statement...which I don't think you will....assuming, that is, you might have an open mind about the possibility that zip cord ( or whatever you favorite bulk wire from Home Depot ( or your local hardware store in Paris) is) can be bettered. Big assumption on my part, I get that.

Speaking for myself, I am less concerned with the openness of my mind than with actual evidence these cables sound different from any others. And there are ways to establish that, and they are a bit more rigorous than just "listening to [them] in your system".

 

[Deleted member 12]

What do they do that (say) Amazon Basics or stuff from Guitar Center doesn't?

Let's put it this way...you will NEVER know unless you try it yourself.

 

[Deleted member 12]

Speaking for myself, I am less concerned with the openness of my mind than with actual evidence these cables sound different from any others. And there are ways to establish that, and they are a bit more rigorous than just "listening to [them] in your system".

Are your hearing abilities and subsequent further enjoyment in your system not proof enough for you? Let me ask you this...say you put these cables in your system ( with no other changes besides the cables) and heard major improvements, but you were told that there was no discernible..or better still..understandable method for this to be the case...are you not still hearing the improvements that you heard? Are you being fooled by your brain into hearing something that doesn't exist, or is it because the ways to establish the difference are failing us at this point....is that not possible?

 

[VintageFlanker]

Maybe...just maybe, you could try and listen to these cables in your system..and then get back to me with the same statement...which I don't think you will....assuming, that is, you might have an open mind about the possibility that zip cord ( or whatever you favorite bulk wire from Home Depot ( or your local hardware store in Paris) is) can be bettered. Big assumption on my part, I get that.

Sounds very personal. What exactly my location has to do with my "open mind"?
"Statements" like yours have no value here. I suggest you to keep your "big assumption" for others forums.
Funny thing here is: I use OCC Cables from Atlas as interlink (no joke). "They sound better than many cables which cost XX€ more" ... The truth is, I bought these at the time I believed people like you claming this kind of thing on forums, without any proof behind.

Are your hearing abilities and subsequent further enjoyment in your system not proof enough for you?

Did you notice the word "Science" in "AudioScienceReview?

 

[Blumlein 88]

Let's put it this way...you will NEVER know unless you try it yourself.

So now that you've tried them and do know that they make no differences what say you now?

http://fairhedon.com/2017/09/05/in-conversation-chris-sommovigo-of-black-cat-cable/

Artisanal manufacturing makes all the difference. I'm still waiting for someone to custom make cables. By that I mean custom make them so they sound just right to the purchaser and no one else. The ultimate in exclusivity. It not only is made to sound good to you via custom manufacture, but no one can dispute the notion because they by definition will sound less good than for whom they were made. Maybe give the purchaser an online hearing test, fill out a form about music preferred, and take a picture of the shape of their ears.

 

[JJB70]

As has been pointed out numerous times, you won't get much out of a wired system if you don't have any wires so we can all agree that cable is critical to make a system work. We also all agree that there are certain properties that affect a cables performance but providing the gauge (and by extension the resistance) is appropriate for the intended duty then it'll be fine. Good quality connectors and a tight fit between the cable and component connections is helpful. Thing is, you can buy well made cables of the right gauge with good quality connectors (or make your own) for peanuts and you really do not need to bother with anything beyond this in my view. I use Amazon basics HDMI cables and haven't bought audio cables for years because I've seen no need to. I've never bothered replacing the stock cables that come with headphones, and don't get me started on power chords.

 

[Deleted member 12]

Sounds very personal. What exactly my location has to do with my "open mind"?
"Statements" like yours have no value here. I suggest you to keep your "big assumption" for others forums.
Funny thing here is: I use OCC Cables from Atlas as interlink (no joke). "They sound better than many cables which cost XX€ more" ... The truth is I bought these at the time I believed people like you claming this kind of thing without any proof behind.

Did you notice the word "Science" in "AudioScienceReview?

Doesn't answer my question.

 

[Deleted member 12]

So now that you've tried them and do know that they make no differences what say you now?

http://fairhedon.com/2017/09/05/in-conversation-chris-sommovigo-of-black-cat-cable/

Artisanal manufacturing makes all the difference. I'm still waiting for someone to custom make cables. By that I mean custom make them so they sound just right to the purchaser and no one else. The ultimate in exclusivity. It not only is made to sound good to you via custom manufacture, but no one can dispute the notion because they by definition will sound less good than for whom they were made. Maybe give the purchaser an online hearing test, fill out a form about music preferred, and take a picture of the shape of their ears.

None of the reviewer's opinions in your link have any value whatsoever...is that a correct assumption?

 

[VintageFlanker]

Doesn't answer my question.

What was it?