Stereophile Reviews Dutch & Dutch 8C

[MSNWatch]

Kalman Rubinson wrote a very complementary review and JA's says to conclude his measurements: "all I can say is "Wow!"
FR +/- 1.4 dB from 200Hz to 15KHz.

 

[MSNWatch]

From that Stereophile Aug 2019 review:

 

[tr1ple6]

From that Stereophile Aug 2019 review:

Don't think Stereophile likes people posting their IP. Probably best to just summarise in your own words

 

[Ilkless]

Kalman Rubinson wrote a very complementary review and JA's says to conclude his measurements: "all I can say is "Wow!"
FR +/- 1.4 dB from 200Hz to 15KHz.

It's flatter than +/- 1.4. The rise from 250Hz downwards is a result of his nearfield splicing technique rather than the speaker performance.

 

[MSNWatch]

https://www.stereophile.com/content/dutch-dutch-8c-active-loudspeaker-system

 

[Wombat]

Don't think Stereophile likes people posting their IP. Probably best to just summarise in your own words

Fair Use

 

[maty]

https://www.stereophile.com/content/dutch-dutch-8c-active-loudspeaker-system-measurements

The green trace above 200Hz in fig.2 shows the D&D speaker's farfield response with an analog input signal, averaged across a 30° horizontal window centered on the tweeter axis. The response is superbly flat, remaining within ±1.4dB limits from 200Hz to 15kHz! However, the output rolls off sharply above 20kHz, reaching full stop-band attenuation just above 24kHz. This suggests that the 8c's internal digital signal processing operates with a sample rate of 48kHz.

Fig.2 Dutch & Dutch 8C, anechoic response on tweeter axis at 50", averaged across 30° horizontal window and corrected for microphone response, with the nearfield woofer (blue) and subwoofer (red) responses and their complex sum (green), respectively plotted below 300Hz, 350Hz, and 300Hz.

 

[Wombat]

https://www.stereophile.com/content/dutch-dutch-8c-active-loudspeaker-system-measurements

Fig.2 Dutch & Dutch 8C, anechoic response on tweeter axis at 50", averaged across 30° horizontal window and corrected for microphone response, with the nearfield woofer (blue) and subwoofer (red) responses and their complex sum (green), respectively plotted below 300Hz, 350Hz, and 300Hz.

Can we do better than suggest?

 

[maty]

The 8c's cumulative spectral-decay plot (fig.6) is one of the cleanest I have measured, especially in the treble! In summing up the Dutch & Dutch 8c's measured performance, all I can say is "Wow!"—John Atkinson

Fig.6 Dutch & Dutch 8C, cumulative spectral-decay plot on tweeter axis at 50" (0.15ms risetime).

 

[sfdoddsy]

Whilst I love that Stereophile does measurements (something Sound and Vision seems to have stopped) I’m still bugged by JA’s bass hedge.

If his measuring technique consistently produces a bump in the bass (which it seems to) why not make an allowance for that in the same way we do for other measurements?

That aside, very impressive measurements.

I’d love to seem them side by side with the equivalent KEF or Revel.

 

[Juhazi]

That bump really should be seen in stereophile's measurement. It comes from Atkinson's measuring technique which he has explained. I can't give a link now with the phone.

 

[sfdoddsy]

Yep, I’m aware of that.

Every measurement he’s done has the same bump and the same explanation for it.

My point is that given this is a consistent glitch, would it not make sense for him to allow for it so we get a better idea of the true bass extension?

His in-room measurements kind of do this and one for the D&D would have been far more useful, especially since the D&D raison d’etre Is taking the room away.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

I’d love to seem them side by side with the equivalent KEF or Revel.

What are these equivalents?

 

[sfdoddsy]

That’s the question I guess.

Form wise the M126, KEF Reference 1 or TAD Evolution?
Or do these new speakers transcend that?

Then again, HiFi News had the KEF R3 measuring very close to the Kii.

Given the evidence-based nature of what is being claimed, I’d love to see some evidence-based testing.

 

[Purité Audio]

There are some really fine measuring speakers available, the Kiis/8Cs have an advantage though when the speaker is actually placed in a room.
It is immediately apparent when you hear them compared side by side with any other design.
Keith

 

[sfdoddsy]

Again, that is my point.

Kal did not mention the Revel Salons (his long-term reference I believe).

I'm curious if this new generation supercedes such venerable speakers.

Some discussion form JA about why they measure so well compared to other speakers would have nice. He did with LS50.

Mind you, it's kind of odd that he did not remeasure after discovering Kal's EQ, in which case the measurements may have been even better.



If you talk, as the review did, about a new generation I feel you need to refer back to old generation.

 

[Soniclife]

Then again, HiFi News had the KEF R3 measuring very close to the Kii.

Do they do any off axis measurements these days?

 

[Xulonn]

There are some really fine measuring speakers available, the Kiis/8Cs have an advantage though when the speaker is actually placed in a room.
It is immediately apparent when you hear them compared side by side with any other design.

You've listened and compared them with every other design of speakers?

WOW! I am indeed impressed!

However, I don't understand the meaning of "advantage" in this context? Are you implying that they don't have an advantage outdoors?

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[Purité Audio]

Well, I didn’t compare them to omni’s, dipoles or those single driver speakers with whizzer cones because that would have just been a waste of time.
Keith

 

[Blumlein 88]

Those measurements in Stereophile do look in several ways to be better than anything they've ever tested before now. So maybe it will be superseded in a few years time. So then you'll have maybe the 2nd best speaker made. I hope for trickle down effects, but see no reason those wanting the best now and know they are early adopters would hesitate.