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This audio cable business is getting out of hand...

SIY

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Sal1950

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I dont want to believe it and I wont. I'm blaming it on my mood. So ill just leave these speaker cables in and forget about it. Ill change back to the old 4mm2 twin copper cables in a month if i remember and listen what happens. But im asking myself "is the treble louder around the 4-6k region" with these cables.
I'm not a tech expert but I do have questions running around in my head.
First was how do you know the new cable is "high capacitance"? Manufacturer spec or self measured? Just curious.
Besides being approx a 12 gauge wire, do you know the specs of your old wire?
Capacitance should be near irrelevant in a low impedance line like speakers.
What is the resistance of the two wires, any answer to a audible difference would most likely be there.
 

Blumlein 88

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What would that do to the sound?
Make sound transparent by......well not being transparent. So it must be undoing something that something does to the sound on the way. Reverse filterfication of bad filtering you know.

I always like showing this when the subject comes up. MIT digital cable with their patented network inside the RCA plug. Consists of a 1 ohm metal film resistor. Patented technology I remind you.

1560448521913.png
 
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Soniclife

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Make sound transparent by......well not being transparent. So it must be undoing something that something does to the sound on the way. Reverse filterfication of bad filtering you know.

I always like showing this when the subject comes up. MIT digital cable with their patented network inside the RCA plug. Consists of a 1 ohm metal film resistor. Patented technology I remind you.

View attachment 27645
I was wondering technically what it does. Act as a low pass filter at some frequency? Good for the class D paranoid user?
 

RayDunzl

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What would that do to the sound?

The in-line inductor provides a bit of low-pass as do the cap and resistor across the conductors...

I'm trying (and failing) to get a little PartSim model of it to give a graph.
 

Sal1950

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if you prescribe to "reference grade" cables here is a video for them. I must say they do look nice
Should be very nice cables without any worry over LCR issues. If I was going to this extent I think I would use a good spade lug over the banana's. In theroy they offer better long tern connections. ;)
 

SIY

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Make sound transparent by......well not being transparent. So it must be undoing something that something does to the sound on the way. Reverse filterfication of bad filtering you know.

I always like showing this when the subject comes up. MIT digital cable with their patented network inside the RCA plug. Consists of a 1 ohm metal film resistor. Patented technology I remind you.

For a while, they had a shunt 100 ohm resistor on one end of their speaker cable, and a potted box containing... nothing on the other. The idea was, I guess, that the shunt resistor wouldn't screw anything up if it was there and there wouldn't be any noticeable change if it failed.
 

Xulonn

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if you prescribe to "reference grade" cables here is a video for them. I must say they do look nice.
Very nice enthusiast DIY video - a rarity on YouTube. Just clear step-by-step instructions with out all of the overbearing audiophool hype. I am not interested in such massive, overkill cables, but can appreciate the availability of such great instructions for those who do.

Of particular interest to me was the top comment (on top as I write this) which links to a Vimeo video by John Siau of Benchmark...


...demonstrating the benefits of the star-quad cable vs standard microphone cable with respect to rejecting magnetic interference. Truly excellent video filmed in what looks like a great electronics lab.. And I learned a lot.

In my little rental casa with its combined living, dining/kitchen central room, the space behind the A/V components of my media stand's middle shelf contains an Intel NUC (computer), DAC, AMP, brick-style power supplies, surge protector/UPS and power, signal, USB and speaker cables. I just might look for less expensive quad-core balanced XLR cables and speaker cables.
 

solderdude

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I was wondering technically what it does. Act as a low pass filter at some frequency? Good for the class D paranoid user?

The inductor is just 2.5uH and since the speaker is around 8 Ohm nominal that would mean it acts as a 500MHz 6dB/oct 'low pass'.
It thus has absolutely NO influence on the sound.
One may wonder why the hell it is in there.
The reason is simple... to ensure the amplifier will remain stable even with a high capacitance cable connected to it.

Most amplifiers have this inductor already inside (usually about 1uH) it along with a filter similar to what is found on the other side of the cable.
Again this is only needed when the cable is high capacitance.

As for the resistor + series capacitor at the end of the cable. This is NOT a low pass filter but is there to counter the rising impedance dynamic speakers at very high frequencies. It starts do do something from about 5MHz to ensure the impedance of the load (above 5MHz) does not increase above 30 Ohm.

So these parts do not filter anything in the audible range but are there to ensure amplifiers that don't like high capacitance cables remain stable.
 
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Grattle

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I got tired of using my long RCA cables to interconnect small DACs and Amps so decided to get a short one. Saw one on Amazon (by "World's Best Cables') that used Canare Star-Quad cable and Amphenol connectors for just $22 shipped. My time was worth much more than that to make one so I ordered it. It came promptly. When I opened though, I was shocked to see this massive sign in there:

View attachment 27076

Are you kidding me? Even a low-cost cable using proper material spreads such a myth?

It is one thing to see this on multi-thousand dollar cables but on a $22 one?

Inside there is an instruction sheet and it says that again. To their credit they acknowledge that such burn-in will take out of Amazon's 30 day return window so they provide instructions on how to still get a return.

The danger here is that such practices will spread to the general public, not just high-end audiophiles.

Yes, it is also "directional" although here, it is due to the way they utilize the shield at one end so that bit is fine.

How did they utilize the shield so as to make it directional?
 

Sal1950

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monstrating the benefits of the star-quad cable vs standard microphone cable with respect to rejecting magnetic interference. Truly excellent video filmed in what looks like a great electronics lab.. And I learned a lot.
How interesting. Of course I've read about the benefits of star quad but still find it amazing how the simple act of physically locating four conductors inside the jacket in this manner can make such a extreme difference in its reaction to magnetic field radiation.
Thanks for the Show & Tell John!
.
So why isn't star quad design normally used for analog interconnects?
Or maybe it is by someone?
Wouldn't it be of value in that application?
 

SIY

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.
So why isn't star quad design normally used for analog interconnects?
Or maybe it is by someone?
Wouldn't it be of value in that application?

Some people make and sell star quad, but it's not common because the problems it solves are not common in home setups.

edit: Or in most studio setups. Note how well a small distance between the radiating source and the cable worked to reduce the noise.
 
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amirm

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How did they utilize the shield so as to make it directional?
The connection is twisted pair plus a shield. The shield is connected at one end but not the other.

81O%2BQti6etL._SL1500_.jpg
 

LTig

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Some people make and sell star quad, but it's not common because the problems it solves are not common in home setups.

edit: Or in most studio setups. Note how well a small distance between the radiating source and the cable worked to reduce the noise.
Yep. In the video the cables were connected to a microphone preamp and I suspect that its gain was quite high, maybe 50-60 dB. In home use the signal is much higher and then the inducted noise is too low to be audible.

Notable exceptions are phono cables, and in these cases it is possible to install it such that it does not cross mains cables or comes too close to a mains transformer. Here a star quad cable only makes sense when both turntable and phono preamp have balanced connectors. (EDIT: or maybe it makes sense, seeing @amirm 's last posting...)
 

SIY

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Besides the high gain, note that he had to bring the source really, really close, like actually laying the source on the cable. Move it a couple inches and the noise goes away.

Now, star quad DOES what it says on the tin, it's very much not snake oil, but in general, it's not needed and is an extra expense. For pathological situations or for cost-no-object, sure.
 

Grattle

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The connection is twisted pair plus a shield. The shield is connected at one end but not the other.

81O%2BQti6etL._SL1500_.jpg

Very interesting. Thanks!
 
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