This audio cable business is getting out of hand...

[RayDunzl]

Isn’t this only after a crossover? Otherwise, both cables out of the amp would be carrying the same signal.

They wouldn't be conducting the same current.

 

[agtp]

Links please?

Hi Sal,

Are you denying what I described? LOL! You’re kidding, right? So, it is okay if I ask you questions? I assure you the questions are relevant on a science based site. My questions have to do with your reasoning and epistemology.

For example, if you allow for unfalsifiable, supernatural explanations (i.e., magic) in your reasoning in certain areas, then you have to accept such explanations in regards to other beliefs/claims in order to remain consistent in your epistemology.

If I were to assert that various audiophile claims are explained by unfalsifiable, undetectable audio fairies, what possible objection could you have? I’ve just provided a perfectly reasonable explanation, which is based on your accepted epistemology.

Are you interested in projecting; or, actually advocating for science, reason, skepticism?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

Nothing against you personally, you seem like a nice guy. Just questioning your reasoning and motives.

The swarm cometh, I suspect.

 

[MZKM]

They wouldn't be conducting the same current.

Not sure what you mean.
You have 2 sets of conductors on each terminal on the amp, and one attaches to the speaker’s tweeter terminal of the same polarity, and the other for the woofer terminal of the same polarity.

Does the LPF on the woofer terminal and HPF on the tweeter terminals have any effect on the speaker cable it’s connected to? Otherwise the speaker cables to both terminals are carrying identical feeds, as they are connected to the same amplifier terminal.

 

[pozz]

How do you get to determine whether these things are worth it without spending a fortune trialling them?

I'd say first thing is to learn how they work, which is probably involved more than it sounds and will likely take a while.

If looking at the situation purely from a consumer's standpoint, as a decision about what to buy without the guidance of special industry or technical knowledge, and being in need of good advice to clear up the murk of all that's said, making a balanced judgment at best frustrating. Especially when it's an apparently simple decision.

No good listening to people who say spend, since apparently there's no ceiling. No good listening to people who adamantly say buy cheap, since their reasons are usually opaque ("as long as it works it's fine"). What qualifies as "working" when it comes to a cable? And does "fine" mean actually ok or something halfass?

There's no way to cut through everything other than to take some time to study.

 

[RayDunzl]

Does the LPF on the woofer terminal and HPF on the tweeter terminals have any effect on the speaker cable it’s connected to? Otherwise the speaker cables to both terminals are carrying identical feeds, as they are connected to the same amplifier terminal.

The low pass to the woofer will not pass high frequency currents.

The high pass to the tweeter will not pass low frequency currents.

That's how the filters do their job.

Therefore, different currents on the two sets of cable, though you could measure (almost) exactly the same voltages.

 

[MZKM]

The low pass to the woofer will not pass high frequency currents.

The high pass to the tweeter will not pass low frequency currents.

That's how the filters do their job.

Therefore, different currents on the two sets of cable, though you could measure (almost) exactly the same voltages.

Right, so these benefits only appear after the filters, right? So we are talking separation of frequencies for a few inches of internal wiring, as the high frequency content is already distorted as AQ claims for the entire length of the speaker cable used (as the speaker cables carry the full bandwidth signal), and similarly-so for the low frequencies.

 

[RayDunzl]

Right, so these benefits only appear after the filters, right?

I'm not smart enough to analyze the effect of the magnetic fields generated in the cables by the differing current flows to come to any reasonable conclusion as to whether or not there would be an appreciable performance difference in practice.

Sorry.

*disclosure: my mains are biwired with 2AWG. It may or may not be smart, but the cost was $0.

 

[DonH56]

Isn’t this only after a crossover? Otherwise, both cables out of the amp would be carrying the same signal.

No, although there must be a crossover in the speaker. The voltage will be essentially the same on both wires but remember power is the product of voltage and current. The tweeter section will block low-frequency energy and so the wire to the tweeter will not carry bass current. Similarly the bass section's crossover will block tweeter current so the woofer wire will not have any tweeter current in it. There is some overlap and may be lossy elements n the crossover that make this not 100% true but hopefully you get the idea.

Again simplistically:
Voltage (V) = Vamplifier = Vtweeter + Vbass
Current (I) = Iamplifier = Itweeter + Ibass

The tweeter wire carries Vtweeter + Vbass but only Itweeter (no bass current; blocked by the tweeter section of the crossover).
The bass wire carries Vtweeter + Vbass but only Ibass (no tweeter current; blocked by the bass section of the crossover).

The magnetic field is a function of the current through the wire (see e.g. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maxwell's_equations )

HTH - Don

 

[maxxevv]

Its interesting but as far as a power systems engineer friend told me, they do replace some industrial high power cables ( in the kilovolt and kilowatt usage range) on a scheduled basis (he didn't mention how often but probably in terms of years) due to the dangers of fires from arching and insulation deterioration.

Maybe the next evolution of high end audio cables should be in the realm of MTBF ratings.

 

[amirm]

Its interesting but as far as a power systems engineer friend told me, they do replace some industrial high power cables ( in the kilovolt and kilowatt usage range) on a scheduled basis (he didn't mention how often but probably in terms of years) due to the dangers of fires from arching and insulation deterioration.

That is most likely age related due to outgassing, UV exposure (if not underground), or chemical deterioration. It is not because they are working (unless operating at elevated temps).

 

[deafenears]

Its interesting but as far as a power systems engineer friend told me, they do replace some industrial high power cables ( in the kilovolt and kilowatt usage range) on a scheduled basis (he didn't mention how often but probably in terms of years) due to the dangers of fires from arching and insulation deterioration.

Now that's what you call cable burn-in

 

[Juhazi]

How about this breakthrough technology? The RCA cable is just 390€ - too cheap to be good?

https://www.spinxcables.com/
SPINX products

Spintronics is one of the most interesting field of physics at the time.
All SpinX Cables are based on our SpinX Technology® which manipulates electron functions with the help of electric and magnetic fields. The technology is based on controlling the electron spin. The spin current is a globally known phenomenon which is studied with the objective of developing a quantum computer.

Their patent http://www.freepatentsonline.com/EP2603919.html
The company has been running on grants for about five years now, the audio RCA- and power cables were released in 2017.

 

[Tks]

Hi Sal,

Are you denying what I described? LOL! You’re kidding, right? So, it is okay if I ask you questions? I assure you the questions are relevant on a science based site. My questions have to do with your reasoning and epistemology.

For example, if you allow for unfalsifiable, supernatural explanations (i.e., magic) in your reasoning in certain areas, then you have to accept such explanations in regards to other beliefs/claims in order to remain consistent in your epistemology.

If I were to assert that various audiophile claims are explained by unfalsifiable, undetectable audio fairies, what possible objection could you have? I’ve just provided a perfectly reasonable explanation, which is based on your accepted epistemology.

Are you interested in projecting; or, actually advocating for science, reason, skepticism?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection

Nothing against you personally, you seem like a nice guy. Just questioning your reasoning and motives.

The swarm cometh, I suspect.

Special plea fallacy incoming.

 

[Tks]

How about this breakthrough technology? The RCA cable is just 390€ - too cheap to be good?

https://www.spinxcables.com/
SPINX products

Spintronics is one of the most interesting field of physics at the time.
All SpinX Cables are based on our SpinX Technology® which manipulates electron functions with the help of electric and magnetic fields. The technology is based on controlling the electron spin. The spin current is a globally known phenomenon which is studied with the objective of developing a quantum computer.

Their patent http://www.freepatentsonline.com/EP2603919.html
The company has been running on grants for about five years now, the audio RCA- and power cables were released in 2017.

Least they could have done is not make them look like shit..

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

But I'm exploring without initial bias

That’s not possible. For you or anyone else.
Unless you design your experiment to exclude bias it will always be there

 

[GGroch]

If anyone is confused as to why wireless/smart components are the only rapidly growing segment of the consumer audio biz...the discussions on this thread, including mine, will provide some insight.

It does not grow the popularity of wired/traditional components if newcomers considering a purchase are told they should bring the cables back to their dealer annually to be re-burned. Or that they must be concerned about cable directionality, star vs coaxial design, skin effects, or must spend a minimum of $500 on interconnects to get decent sound. Discussing this nonsense entertains a few of us...but I expect it pushes the vast majority of music lovers away from even considering traditional components.

Wireless technology is not immune from this: witness the Audiophile Wireless Router....but at least the opportunity to make a lot of cash peddling snake oil cables will diminish as the audio cable market as a whole shrinks..

 

[Veri]

Wireless technology is not immune from this: witness the Audiophile Wireless Router....but at least the opportunity to make a lot of cash peddling snake oil cables will diminish as the audio cable market as a whole shrinks..

Adding additional audio grade is needed in order to provide exceptional sound on network audio over traditional router design.

Holy crap.

 

[pkane]

Adding additional audio grade is needed in order to provide exceptional sound on network audio over traditional router design.

Holy crap.

That is some amazing technology. I'm going to upgrade to OCXO, all audiophile caps, LPS, and 24k gold PCB traces in my refrigerator now that I know that it makes such a big difference!

 

[GrimSurfer]

I'm most impressed by the term "OCXO military spec" that appears on their site. Maybe the defence of the free world could be outsourced to the "OCXO military"?

 

[mansr]

I'm most impressed by the term "OCXO military spec" that appears on their site.

Usually all that means is that a component is rated for an extended temperature range of -55–125°C. I guess that's useful if you want to put a sound system in the sauna.