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NAD partners with Purifi, working on an Eigentakt amplifier

restorer-john

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"According to measurements by PURIFI, the Eigentakt circuit is expected to outperform any audio amplifier known, regardless of technology or class, with THD and IMD quoted as below 0.00017% at all frequencies and power levels"

Let's see the noise component as well...

The Benchmark amp would equal or better that as THD alone (minus N).

Their own specifications page contradicts the hype above:

1559091502580.png


When are they going to stop the BS? On their own plot <0.00017% is between circa 70W and 270W@4ohms . Not 'at all frequencies and power levels'. It's blatantly deceptive hype, yet again. Let's have a 450W@1% joke of a specification to sucker people in. How long can the module do 450W? Oh, wait a minute, it's really only 100W@4ohms rated, so about 50-60W@8ohms, but the distortion isn't guaranteed except in a small range near full power.

Let's put the noise into perspective.

The dynamic range (131dB) they quote is with respect to 450W@1%THD@4ohms and calculates to ~11.8uV. (spec 11.5uV)
The Benchmark AHB-1 Amir measured at (worst case) -112.5dB below 5W@4ohms. That calculates to around 10.6uV, so the Benchmark is also quieter.

God I miss the specifications of old. I miss the honesty, the conservative nature of companies, the humility, and most of all, the lack of crowd-sourced group-think and mindless hype.
 
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Matias

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Yes, unfortunately for Bruno and company the Benchmark amp has raised the bar. Let's see prices, maybe they will win on value.
 
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reza

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"According to measurements by PURIFI, the Eigentakt circuit is expected to outperform any audio amplifier known, regardless of technology or class, with THD and IMD quoted as below 0.00017% at all frequencies and power levels"

Let's see the noise component as well...

The Benchmark amp would equal or better that as THD alone (minus N).

Their own specifications page contradicts the hype above:

View attachment 26879

When are they going to stop the BS? On their own plot <0.00017% is between circa 70W and 270W@4ohms . Not 'at all frequencies and power levels'. It's blatantly deceptive hype, yet again. Let's have a 450W@1% joke of a specification to sucker people in. How long can the module do 450W? Oh, wait a minute, it's really only 100W@4ohms rated, so about 50-60W@8ohms, but the distortion isn't guaranteed except in a small range near full power.

Let's put the noise into perspective.

The dynamic range (131dB) they quote is with respect to 450W@1%THD@4ohms and calculates to ~11.8uV. (spec 11.5uV)
The Benchmark AHB-1 Amir measured at (worst case) -112.5dB below 5W@4ohms. That calculates to around 10.6uV, so the Benchmark is also quieter.

God I miss the specifications of old. I miss the honesty, the conservative nature of companies, the humility, and most of all, the lack of crowd-sourced group-think and mindless hype.

These measurements don't seem to offer much over the NC400:

1559101435719.png


Could it be that the improvements are elsewhere then, not in THD?

EDIT:
I stand corrected: the NC400 hits the 0.005% at around 5W -though this is into 4 Ohms, so maybe a bit sooner into 8 Ohms. The Eigentakt gets there at around 20 mW. That's not too shabby of an improvement over their previous design.
 
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restorer-john

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Could it be that the improvements are elsewhere then, not in THD?

The improvements are likely in better profits and licensing revenue streams.
 

JJB70

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"According to measurements by PURIFI, the Eigentakt circuit is expected to outperform any audio amplifier known, regardless of technology or class, with THD and IMD quoted as below 0.00017% at all frequencies and power levels"

Let's see the noise component as well...

The Benchmark amp would equal or better that as THD alone (minus N).

Their own specifications page contradicts the hype above:

View attachment 26879

When are they going to stop the BS? On their own plot <0.00017% is between circa 70W and 270W@4ohms . Not 'at all frequencies and power levels'. It's blatantly deceptive hype, yet again. Let's have a 450W@1% joke of a specification to sucker people in. How long can the module do 450W? Oh, wait a minute, it's really only 100W@4ohms rated, so about 50-60W@8ohms, but the distortion isn't guaranteed except in a small range near full power.

Let's put the noise into perspective.

The dynamic range (131dB) they quote is with respect to 450W@1%THD@4ohms and calculates to ~11.8uV. (spec 11.5uV)
The Benchmark AHB-1 Amir measured at (worst case) -112.5dB below 5W@4ohms. That calculates to around 10.6uV, so the Benchmark is also quieter.

God I miss the specifications of old. I miss the honesty, the conservative nature of companies, the humility, and most of all, the lack of crowd-sourced group-think and mindless hype.

Sadly this seems to be the standard response when a technology has been commoditised and they're desperate to differentiate their product and carve out a space in the market........:facepalm:
 
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JohnYang1997

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"According to measurements by PURIFI, the Eigentakt circuit is expected to outperform any audio amplifier known, regardless of technology or class, with THD and IMD quoted as below 0.00017% at all frequencies and power levels"

Let's see the noise component as well...

The Benchmark amp would equal or better that as THD alone (minus N).

Their own specifications page contradicts the hype above:

View attachment 26879

When are they going to stop the BS? On their own plot <0.00017% is between circa 70W and 270W@4ohms . Not 'at all frequencies and power levels'. It's blatantly deceptive hype, yet again. Let's have a 450W@1% joke of a specification to sucker people in. How long can the module do 450W? Oh, wait a minute, it's really only 100W@4ohms rated, so about 50-60W@8ohms, but the distortion isn't guaranteed except in a small range near full power.

Let's put the noise into perspective.

The dynamic range (131dB) they quote is with respect to 450W@1%THD@4ohms and calculates to ~11.8uV. (spec 11.5uV)
The Benchmark AHB-1 Amir measured at (worst case) -112.5dB below 5W@4ohms. That calculates to around 10.6uV, so the Benchmark is also quieter.

God I miss the specifications of old. I miss the honesty, the conservative nature of companies, the humility, and most of all, the lack of crowd-sourced group-think and mindless hype.
You do know that is thd+n plot right? It's not representative to THD no N. And you said it yourself. Why would they want to deceive us using such number as 0.00017%?
I think it's the interpretation issue.
0.00017% is specified as thd+n. But the sentence is saying thd and imd no n. It's probably because they just want to play safe and say it. Most of the time that should be correct. Only thing to notice is crossover distortion at low level. We shouldn't just right here. We need to see the spectrum at different levels.
 
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JohnYang1997

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These measurements don't seem to offer much over the NC400:

View attachment 26880

Could it be that the improvements are elsewhere then, not in THD?

EDIT:
I stand corrected: the NC400 hits the 0.005% at around 5W -though this is into 4 Ohms, so maybe a bit sooner into 8 Ohms. The Eigentakt gets there at around 20 mW. That's not too shabby of an improvement over their previous design.
0.0005%?
 

Aprude51

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A few thoughts:

- I think it’s unfair to criticize Purifi for generating “mindless hype”, as NAD wrote the press release based on their interpretation of “measurements provided by Purifi”. Regardless, I do believe this is a misinterpretation of those measurements because according to Purifi’s own site the 1ET400A achieves .00017% THD at 10W but not 1W.
- Purifi has provided a pretty comprehensive set of measurements that AFAIK aren’t inflated or inaccurate, so I’m not sure why they’re worse than “specifications of old”. I hope a company considering Purifi modules for use in an active speaker or amplifier isn’t basing their decision on a quote from a press release or headline number, but instead examines & validates the full set of measurements provided by Purifi.
- Although the AHB2 exceeds the performance of the 1ET400A, Benchmark is offering an entirely different product to Purifi. The Purifi module is an OEM product and they note a number of benefits only of consequence to the intended buyer (e.g. reduced PS quality requirements, easier regulatory compliance & integration).

All that said, I don’t think the 1ET400A offers any meaningful performance improvements over NCore, and I think most here would agree any improvements would be inaudible anyway. I think it will succeed or fail on the basis of the benefits it provides to companies integrating these modules into other products.
 
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Matias

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All that said, I don’t think the 1ET400A offers any meaningful performance improvements over NCore, and I think most here would agree any improvements would be inaudible anyway. I think it will succeed or fail on the basis of the benefits it provides to companies integrating these modules into other products.

If the 1ET400A is pin compatible with NC500OEM, I for sure am interested in swapping them as soon as available. :)
Edit: they are pin compatible, but the 1ET400A needs a lower voltage power supply than the NC500...

imageedit_22_8263202868-e1556786568381.png.afe58823d716ddc60cb52fc65d073dd3.png


1_nc500-oem.thumb.jpg.5d1ad14ce896ee46f3ee416845d4ac68.jpg
 
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Matias

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The Purifi has more power than the AHB2, so there's that in their defense.

AHB2 can be bridged to get similar power levels as a standalone NC500 module. But the price would be about $6k versus $2k...
 

pjug

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AHB2 can be bridged to get similar power levels as a standalone NC500 module. But the price would be about $6k versus $2k...
Yes, but then the bridged AHB2 is also more touchy about driving low impedance than the purifi.
 

Matias

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Yes, but then the bridged AHB2 is also more touchy about driving low impedance than the purifi.
Is it? I understood it is stable to 2 ohms or less, being current limited as well.
 
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pjug

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Is it? I understood it is stable to 2 ohms or less, bring current limited as well.
My understanding from discussion in the AHB2 thread is that 4 ohms bridged is OK. But not 2 ohms. Don't get me wrong, the AHB2 looks great and I think I would prefer it to the Purifi. I just meant to say the Purifi looks to have the advantage in power.
 

GrimSurfer

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Give me proven technology over promised technology any day!
 
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