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When 12 Gauge Wire is Not 12 Gauge

Sal1950

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The last reference under the Roger Russell is good for a laugh:
I'd forgotten that video,, it's perfect, hitting all the details of the subjectives agenda very smoothly. ;)
 

UWinWithWin

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I had no idea these cables would all measure so differently. I expected it to be close. But it’s practically apples and oranges out there.
 

Hypnotoad

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The coat hanger actually went past the bottom of the graph so whatever story there is on how it sounds is quite suspect.

That's why I always use oxygen free coat hangers. And when using 12 gauge, I go with double barrel for stereo, gives that extra kick. Make sure your speakers are pretty much bullet proof though.

_MG_9771.jpg
 

watchnerd

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That's why I always use oxygen free coat hangers. And when using 12 gauge, I go with double barrel for stereo, gives that extra kick. Make sure your speakers are pretty much bullet proof though.

_MG_9771.jpg



Side-by-side?

Pffft.

Over-under is for people who want to hit things, instead of ride shotgun in a stage coach.

686_SILVER_PIGEON_I_OPEN1.jpg
 

NTomokawa

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Combination guns and pepperbox guns would like a word with you...

Meanwhile my new system takes balanced (XLR and 1/4" TRS) cables. Guess I can stop worrying about one thing and start worrying about another. At least it says "Made in USA" on the insulation...
 

DonH56

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Speedskater

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I’m currently running Monoprice 12 gauge. At what lengths would you expect this to impact performance?
That will depend on the frequency/impedance curve of your loudspeakers. If the curve looks like a rollercoaster ride, or if Stereophile magazine rates them as a difficult amplifier load or they have a very low impedance (like the Apogee) then the length will be shorter than most other speakers.
 

BluesDaddy

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Interesting post and discussion. Tweaked my thinking a bit on "wire is wire". Too bad the Radio Shack 12 AWG is no longer available.
 

concorde1

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I just measured my generic "12/13 AWG" OFC cable sourced from an electronics store - to which I had already attached Neutrik SpeakOn connector to one side of it.

I got:
DCR (milliohms/ft) = 2.39 [much higher than most on the table]
Capacitance (pF) = 19.0 [expectable]
Inductance (uH) = 0.366 [much higher than those on table]

I have two of these cables I made - they are 8.2 ft long each (that is, 19.6 = 2.39*8.2) milliohm resistance each).

Well that's annoying, looks like it's not to spec.

The product can be found here: https://folders.co.nz/collections/speaker-wire/products/jumbo-ofc-fig-8-speaker-cable-sold-per-metre
That's not where I bought it from, but it's the same cable.

EDIT: My DCR is for one side of the cable of the two. So for both sides of the cable, it's 4.78 milliohms/ft - or as a total, 39.2 milliohms.

I'm not sure if Amir measured the DCR's in the table for one side of cables, or both (+ and -) added together.
 
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MaxBuck

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Question: aside from the impedance issue (both simple resistance and complex components), is the potential for RF or EMF interference with the signal a consideration at all? Is there such a thing as shielded speaker cable? Would such a product have any potential benefits?
 

audio2design

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I find the easiest way to measure cable and other low resistance at least on something beefy like 12awg is with a 10A bench supply and a millivolt meter. Far less susceptibility to poor connections since the 10A is guaranteed.

Saw a comment about impedance. Keep in mind cable impedance goes up fast at low frequencies and you can't just measure LCR and calculate it.
 

Pdxwayne

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Hmm,I got many ft of no name brands, including monoprice......I guess it is time to buy new wires approved by Amir....
 

Angsty

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I just buy Belden from Blue Jeans Cables with ultrasonically welded terminations and choose not to worry.
 

concorde1

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Question: aside from the impedance issue (both simple resistance and complex components), is the potential for RF or EMF interference with the signal a consideration at all? Is there such a thing as shielded speaker cable? Would such a product have any potential benefits?
I think with speaker and headphone cables, because the amplification step(s) have already occurred, there is no need for shielding, as there is nothing to amplify the noise itself in the speaker or headphone, so it is minimal. Whereas interconnects are prior to amplification so the noise is amplified. But someone else can expand on it because I don't really know. For example if you had a speaker cable running several tens of metres maybe noise would be a factor, but then resistance would be too.

Also of note for this thread is this that I found a few years ago; from the Revel Gem2 manual:
wire thickness effect.png
 

RayDunzl

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Question: aside from the impedance issue (both simple resistance and complex components), is the potential for RF or EMF interference with the signal a consideration at all? Is there such a thing as shielded speaker cable? Would such a product have any potential benefits?

From my practical experience, no.
 

Sal1950

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I find the easiest way to measure cable and other low resistance at least on something beefy like 12awg is with a 10A bench supply and a millivolt meter. Far less susceptibility to poor connections since the 10A is guaranteed.
How about writing up a short tutorial on exactly how to set up for this measurement. Sounds simple enough that many of the members here could perform it themself on their current cable.
TIA, Sal
 

MaxBuck

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From what I'm reading in other threads, using Star Quad configured speaker cable looks like it might have some benefits, depending on your system configuration. It's available in 14 AWG from B&H for a bit more than a dollar a foot.
 
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