• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Truthear x Crinacle Zero:RED IEM Review

Rate this IEM:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 7 1.8%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 13 3.4%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 40 10.5%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 322 84.3%

  • Total voters
    382

Rottmannash

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 11, 2020
Messages
2,969
Likes
2,606
Location
Nashville
  • Like
Reactions: GPJ

brandall10

Senior Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2019
Messages
306
Likes
362
Next collaboration proposal: basically the same tuning, but one or more additional divers for the treble to smoothen it out a bit more, $100 -$200, there should be a market for it.

There is but it probably is best served by just having another model. Something to look forward to at the $300 price point is the upcoming Blessing 3: Dusk, which will also be tuned by Crinacle (2DD + 4BA).
 

Aperiodic

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
May 2, 2019
Messages
295
Likes
441
I believe it is illegal to drive with earbuds or HP's on here in backwards Tennessee, but like many laws isn't enforced. I see folks every day driving around w/ Airpods in their ears-maybe Apple should have painted them flesh-colored to cloak these wearers.
In my state, they're legal, but in only one ear at a time
 

MacClintock

Senior Member
Joined
May 24, 2023
Messages
434
Likes
763
There is but it probably is best served by just having another model. Something to look forward to at the $300 price point is the upcoming Blessing 3: Dusk, which will also be tuned by Crinacle (1 DD + 4 BA).
Yes, I know, but this is already considerably more expensive. Many people who are willing to spend that much money go directly to the Variations. There are now many very good IEMs below $100, even several below $50. I think if he could come up with a version like the Red, just with a smoother treble and be in the $100 - $200 range, this could be quite disruptive for the market.
 

Jimbob54

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Oct 25, 2019
Messages
11,066
Likes
14,697
Yes, I know, but this is already considerably more expensive. Many people who are willing to spend that much money go directly to the Variations. There are now many very good IEMs below $100, even several below $50. I think if he could come up with a version like the Red, just with a smoother treble and be in the $100 - $200 range, this could be quite disruptive for the market.
When you say "smoother in the treble" what do you mean? I dont believe @amirm applies any smoothing and this is a single measurement, not averaged and it looks pretty damn smooth to me.
 

MacClintock

Senior Member
Joined
May 24, 2023
Messages
434
Likes
763
When you say "smoother in the treble" what do you mean? I dont believe @amirm applies any smoothing and this is a single measurement, not averaged and it looks pretty damn smooth to me.
All the measurements I have seen (Amir's GRAS, Crinacle's B&K5128, 711 (crinacle, HBB, Gizaudio,...)) show the magnitude response quite uneven between 6kHz and about 15kHZ. I know that the measurements are not so reliable in that region, but still, there are other IEMs, especially those with additional drivers for the treble (BA, EST,...), that are much more controlled and target compliant without major resonances.
 
Last edited:

Jimbob54

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Oct 25, 2019
Messages
11,066
Likes
14,697
All the meaurements I have seen (Amir's GRAS, Crinacle's B&K5128, 711 (crinacle, HBB, Gizaudio,...)) show the magnitude response quite uneven between 6kHz and about 15kHZ. I know that the measurements are not so reliable in that region, but still, there are other IEMs, especially those with additional drivers for the treble (BA, EST,...), that are much more controlled and target compliant without major resonances.
Which models were you thinking of ? A quick look at some big names (I know- popularity or price doesnt equal performance, but...)
graph.png
graph (1).png
EDIT- noticed you had mentioned the Variations so added the second graph- I woudnt like to say which was "smoother" but the Variations is closer to Harman in the range you mention.
 
Last edited:

MacClintock

Senior Member
Joined
May 24, 2023
Messages
434
Likes
763
Which models were you thinking of ? A quick look at some big names (I know- popularity or price doesnt equal performance, but...) View attachment 288201View attachment 288204EDIT- noticed you had mentioned the Variations so added the second graph- I woudnt like to say which was "smoother" but the Variations is closer to Harman in the range you mention.
Well, you just pasted graphs of some IEMs there. I did not mean any of these, even if most of them are quite expensive, which means, as you correctly mentioned, nothing.
Sure, the Variations are the most prominent example, being probably the best IEM around. This is also evident in the B&K 5128 measurements:

Frequenzy response Red vs Variations B&K 5128 crinacle.png

But there are other examples as well, like the Aful Performer 5 (around $200):
Frequency response Truthear Red vs Variations vs Aful Performer 5 Gizaudio.png
 

MacClintock

Senior Member
Joined
May 24, 2023
Messages
434
Likes
763
You should have more to go on before declaring something less smooth based on measurements, above 6kHz, alone. Let alone going on to provide design advice.
I just stated what I would like to have and at the same time think is missing for a lot of people really interested in sound quality, i.e. a well tuned IEM with Harman bass, less energy between 2 and 6 kHz than the Harman2019V2 target and smooth treble without big dips or resonances. All this well below $500. If I were doing collaborations, I would go for this.
 
Last edited:

digitalfrost

Major Contributor
Joined
Jul 22, 2018
Messages
1,521
Likes
3,086
Location
Palatinate, Germany
I just stated what I would like to have and and at the same time think is missing for a lot of people really interested in sound quality, a well tuned IEM with Harman bass, less energy between 2 and 6 kHz than the Harman2019V2 target and smooth treble without big dips or resonances. All this well below $500. If I were doing collaborations, I would go for this.
Still very happy with my Mangird Tea2s. What you described was pretty much what I was looking for back then.

But I agree if somebody was making a modern version of this, I'd certainly try it. This is still exactly my requirements sheet for an IEM.
 

markanini

Major Contributor
Joined
Feb 15, 2019
Messages
1,718
Likes
1,768
Location
Scania
I don't know how many people have received their order, let's see if many people find the treble smooth subjectively.
 

Zim

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Jul 9, 2021
Messages
107
Likes
212
Location
Kangarooland
What the heck is he doing? He is eq'ing his own IEMs with the measurements of RED??? He can't do that for all the reasons we have mentioned: the measurements lose accuracy especially above 10 kHz. And some of his tracks are real head scratchers:


How does he know the real tonality of this completely looped and synthesized track?
This YouTuber's a pretty well-known troll. Any video by him is an immediate ignore.
 

raif71

Major Contributor
Joined
Sep 7, 2019
Messages
2,333
Likes
2,535
Brain burn-in sounds dangerous.
It's the opposite of brain freeze :p. Serious, aside... our brain's burn-in is natural. Over time, the brain adopts certain conditions that are not too extreme of course.
 

MacClintock

Senior Member
Joined
May 24, 2023
Messages
434
Likes
763
But the Aful has anything but smooth treble in that graph. My question to you was what do you mean by smooth treble. But this discussion is going nowhere so good luck in your search.
Thanks, but I am not really on the search, quite happy with what I have (more than enough), just interested in the topic and how the market develops.
To the point, last try, if you look at the graph and assuming one can trust the measurements, the Red has a steep fall after about 12 kHZ, which neither the Variations nor the Aful Performer 5 exhibit (or only well above 15kHZ), a kind of resonance.
 

Blorg

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 16, 2020
Messages
462
Likes
699
But the Aful has anything but smooth treble in that graph. My question to you was what do you mean by smooth treble. But this discussion is going nowhere so good luck in your search.
Aful looks smoother to me. The wobbles in the Aful are very low variances and are not audible to me. I haven't heard the Red yet but the resonance peaks are a lot higher, it goes both higher in the peaks and and lower in the dips. I don't think the Red looks enormously problematic or anything and usual caveats about IEC-711 measurements over the insertion resonance but if we are specifically talking about the Aful vs Red treble over 6kHz on "that graph" specifically, the Aful does look smoother in that region, on "that graph". Variations is also smoother, and this is one of the things it is most often compared as an improvement on the Blessing2, it is smoother in the treble. B3 (which I haven't heard) is from accounts also smoother than the B2 in the treble, and there are hints of that in the graphs too.

1685082281503.png
 

Jimbob54

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Oct 25, 2019
Messages
11,066
Likes
14,697
Aful looks smoother to me. The wobbles in the Aful are very low variances and are not audible to me. I haven't heard the Red yet but the resonance peaks are a lot higher, it goes both higher in the peaks and and lower in the dips. I don't think the Red looks enormously problematic or anything and usual caveats about IEC-711 measurements over the insertion resonance but if we are specifically talking about the Aful vs Red treble over 6kHz on "that graph" specifically, the Aful does look smoother in that region, on "that graph".

View attachment 288278
Deleted my post but you'd already quoted it. Not much point debating smoothness. I get what they mean now, kind of. Be interesting to read what people think of the Red treble when they get them.
 

Jimbob54

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Oct 25, 2019
Messages
11,066
Likes
14,697
Thanks, but I am not really on the search, quite happy with what I have (more than enough), just interested in the topic and how the market develops.
To the point, last try, if you look at the graph and assuming one can trust the measurements, the Red has a steep fall after about 12 kHZ, which neither the Variations nor the Aful Performer 5 exhibit (or only well above 15kHZ), a kind of resonance.
Point taken. Enjoy your listening.
 

MacClintock

Senior Member
Joined
May 24, 2023
Messages
434
Likes
763
Aful looks smoother to me. The wobbles in the Aful are very low variances and are not audible to me. I haven't heard the Red yet but the resonance peaks are a lot higher, it goes both higher in the peaks and and lower in the dips. I don't think the Red looks enormously problematic or anything and usual caveats about IEC-711 measurements over the insertion resonance but if we are specifically talking about the Aful vs Red treble over 6kHz on "that graph" specifically, the Aful does look smoother in that region, on "that graph". Variations is also smoother, and this is one of the things it is most often compared as an improvement on the Blessing2, it is smoother in the treble. B3 (which I haven't heard) is from accounts also smoother than the B2 in the treble, and there are hints of that in the graphs too.

View attachment 288278
That was exactly what I was trying to say. Sure, these are tiny differences and one has to have good hearing abilities in the treble to perceive it, but still we are here taking about high fidelity, right?
 
Joined
May 29, 2020
Messages
45
Likes
37
I just stated what I would like to have and at the same time think is missing for a lot of people really interested in sound quality, i.e. a well tuned IEM with Harman bass, less energy between 2 and 6 kHz than the Harman2019V2 target and smooth treble without big dips or resonances. All this well below $500. If I were doing collaborations, I would go for this.
I'm in this camp, my favourite 'budget' IEM at the moment is the P1 Max Panda, highly underrated IEM, perfect tuning in the 2-6kHz region, so glad Tinhifi choose to go against the grain for this Planer, no offence to Crinacle but I'm not sure why the Red is being held up as an important contrary to the IE Harman target when other IEMs have done a better job in my opinion, there is obviously a large group of people out there that are just tired of the 2-6kHz region bleeding thier ears, even Resolve from The Headphone Show said in his review of the Red, and I quote, "I do still think the upper mids could do with a littler bit of extra refinement here, in particular around 4kHz", Resolve is bang on here, and it's no surprise why he is a big fan of the 64 Audio U12t that is better tuned in the region.
 
Top Bottom