Why are single drivers disliked to such an extent by most in this forum?

[computer-audiophile]

Despite their drawbacks, there are good single-driver systems within their limitations, using various schemes to improve directivity, and for specific applications.

Agreed!

The thing about limitations applies to all speaker genres. Depending on the technology used, they can't do everything equally well. That's why I usually have different loudspeakers in use. Theoretically I am aware of some things, I have been in the subject for many decades, I have read various thick books, attended workshops and made my own experiments, but in the end I always have to hear for myself what results are achieved. Through these exercises my hearing was also trained and I became a critical and analytical listener. I can describe these experiences, but I can't transfer them, even if I tried hard until my fingers broke on the keyboard.

 

[mhardy6647]

Thank you, explained very well!

By the way, connoisseurs swear by the Alnico magnets and my own experiments with the same drivers equipped with Alnico, or ferrite magnets confirm this.

I... umm... will stay out of the AlNiCo discussion on this particular forum.
I will say that we're mostly AlNiCo here -- at least when it comes to the serious loudspeakers in the house.
One may draw one's own conclusions.

 

[mhardy6647]

... perfect introduction!

Indeed. We mostly use small and simple vocabulary, too!

 

[mhardy6647]

I'll put in a good word for neodymium, too -- you know, while we're talkin' magnets...




My super (ish) tweeters have neodymium magnets.

 

[computer-audiophile]

I... umm... will stay out of the AlNiCo discussion on this particular forum.
I will say that we're mostly AlNiCo here -- at least when it comes to the serious loudspeakers in the house.
One may draw one's own conclusions.

What can we see here? I can not recognize the driver.

 

[fpitas]

The big problem with alnico was cost. That's why everybody went to ferrite. These days, most new pro drivers seem to use neodymium, because it's relatively cheap, compact and other than the gobs of steel for the magnetic circuit, light.

 

[computer-audiophile]

With the Greencones, I have long wondered whether the Alnico bracket magnet or the Alnico cup magnet is better. By the way, I brought Sakuma San Greencone speakers as a guest gift when I visited him in his legendary audio bar in Tateyama. Here he just takes the bending wave tweeters. They don't know them in Japan.

 

[kemmler3D]

Despite their drawbacks, there are good single-driver systems within their limitations, using various schemes to improve directivity, and for specific applications. I'll stick with multi-driver systems myself.

Agree and same here.

 

[fpitas]

Agree and same here.

Me too. I don't think anyone here "hates" single driver. I know I don't. There are just better choices.

 

[computer-audiophile]

Me too. I don't think anyone here "hates" single driver. I know I don't. There are just better choices.

Then I am reassured and can sleep well tonight.

 

[computer-audiophile]

Just for the fun of it, I show another own photo where Jean Michel LeCleac'h (R.I.P) shows a Cabasse full range speaker heavily modified by him. Jean Michel has been a highly respected horn loudspeaker expert in France. A scientist and a decent gentleman. I know some of his great loudspeakers and also once attended a workshop of several days by him in Paris, where it was about the calculation of horn geometries and measurements on horn speakers were made.

 

[DonH56]

Just saw these in the Stereophile newsletter: https://www.stereophile.com/content/voxativ-revisits-its-roots-mid-der-ampeggio

 

[mhardy6647]

What can we see here? I can not recognize the driver.

Altec 515B.

515B

 

[dougi]

Haha, I get more pleasure from the positive comments I received from listeners of my full-range speakers. Even more so when I received them from experienced audiophiles and professionals. There is simply nothing like lived performance practice when it comes to speaker sound. There are good and bad examples in every design.

BTW: Not to forget, for example, that the Elipson Speakers I mentioned above were a studio standard for a long time at French Radio ORTF. By the way, Pierre Boulez also used such in his Acousmonium. (Also the bigger floor standers, not only these of my picture)

The modern Elipsons inspired by these (Planet Ls) are, however, coaxials! Which have their own flaws in their implementation.

 

[Timcognito]

Just in case you missed Andrew Jones goes over issues in designing a coaxial speaker. Best meaty parts start at 22 minutes into the the video.

Andrew Jones interviewed at Munich High End by Darko

So, Andrew Jones questioned by Darko at the Munich Highend and lots of questions about Measurements:

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[computer-audiophile]

The modern Elipsons inspired by these (Planet Ls) are, however, coaxials! Which have their own flaws in their implementation.

Yes, I know that new speakers are being made again with that brand name.

I found the beginnings of Elipson interesting, where they made really big and heavy plaster spheres, that was in a kind of barn in France. I traveled there once as a young man from Germany to see and listen to them. I became attentive at that time by an article in the 'Funkschau'. But they were too expensive for me at that time. The ones I looked for were two-way speakers. They had a tweeter at the top of the sphere. I was impressed by their sound and 'modern' look.

 

[Chrispy]

TLnR as far as beyond first post....but what the hell, who said I didn't like full range drivers? It's not a matter of "like", it's more function, haven't had any that I'd want to use over other choices to get better range.

 

[SivKiv]

It's been a while since I looked, but I think I went through most of the Cotswold and Tectonic datasheets. Some of them have 3rd party measurements too, like the tiny Tectonic: https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/driveunits/tectonic-elements-tebm35c10-4-miniature-bmr-driver/

Line arrays were already mentioned. They have their own limitations, difficulties and tradeoffs. The various 'panel with exciter(s)' projects you'll see around are a non-pistonic example with wider dispersion than you would expect from a panel that large. NXT probably did this best, but didn't see wide success. I hear their patents are about to expire, so perhaps something more will come of it. The BMRs come under 'other forms' as a hybrid of piston at low frequencies and excited panel at high frequencies. The voice coil is shte exciter and, if I understand it correctly, carefully selected and positioned weights help control the breakup modes.

Ah, alright, thanks. BMRs do seem pretty interesting, wonder why they have limited implementation. Also, I'm not sure how useful these would be, but these are the 6.5 inch set from Cotswold, just in case you may have not seen it before:

 

[fpitas]

TLnR as far as beyond first post....but what the hell, who said I didn't like full range drivers? It's not a matter of "like", it's more function, haven't had any that I'd want to use over other choices to get better range.

I think that up close at low volumes, they're OK.

 

[computer-audiophile]

I think that up close at low volumes, they're OK.

This cannot be generalized. The Lii Audio F15, for example, has no problems playing loud.

When I participated in the Shootout in Paris with my Philips M9710 and didn't win, it was also because I had backed the wrong horse, so to speak. I had assumed that the listening distance would be large and that a lot of rock music would be played. After all, the 9710 can really get into the swing of things. But that wasn't the case, you heard more small classical lineups, chansons, bar jazz, etc. The smaller full-range drivers had advantages in fine resolution. And so one of these also performed best.