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Carver Raven 350 Review (Tube Amp)

Rate this amplifier:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 269 82.8%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 29 8.9%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 17 5.2%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 10 3.1%

  • Total voters
    325

egellings

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Aczel too no prisoners! Tubes are for boobs according to him. He did write that a competent tube amp could be made, but why bother? Simple; it's amplifier as pet--my little Fi-fi. Nothing's too good for my little Fi-fi. Do you understand? N-n-n-n-nothing! Disclaimer: I have home-brewed tube monoblocks & preamp. The "made it muhself" feel enhances my enjoyment of them. As far as tubes go, if you enjoy them, fine. If not, then simply pass them by.
 

fpitas

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fpitas

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That's part of the charm.
I understand the DIY part. They were fun when I was a kid, but to me not worth investing much time in now.
 

sergeauckland

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Aczel too no prisoners! Tubes are for boobs according to him. He did write that a competent tube amp could be made, but why bother? Simple; it's amplifier as pet--my little Fi-fi. Nothing's too good for my little Fi-fi. Do you understand? N-n-n-n-nothing! Disclaimer: I have home-brewed tube monoblocks & preamp. The "made it muhself" feel enhances my enjoyment of them. As far as tubes go, if you enjoy them, fine. If not, then simply pass them by.
I understand the DIY part. They were fun when I was a kid, but to me not worth investing much time in now.
To pass the long winter evenings (and cold, wet days) I built myself a pair of EL84PP amplifiers, and repaired a pair of Quad II amplifiers to use in my study. Listening to Venice Classic as I type. All I need is a couple of watts being as the 'speakers are so close, and the EL84s do fine. The Quads are bridged into a subwoofer under my desk, with a spare Behringer DCX as crossover. Good fun building them, they look good in the dark, and they sound fine giving out a couple of watts at my desk.

Having said that, in my main system, the amps are SS, as valves for me are a bit of fun, not for serious use. I certainly wouldn't pay the prices being charged for classic valve amps (a Leak Stereo 20 (2x10 watts EL84PP) is well over £1000. Utter madness.

Of course having some valve amps means I needed a valve tester, so the last two weeks were spent building a tester for Octal, B9A and B7G bases. :facepalm: It's a rabbit hole I've willingly gone down, anything to get away from the reality of a British winter. :)

S.
 

cabinum

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My humble .02 as an owner . . . In my experience, the tube sound (aka distorted) versus SS (clean) or digital (clinical) of amplification is analogous to the difference between film, tape and digital video. Every type of film has a "character" that makes it differ from another as do valve amps. If you want 8K HD video, you don't shoot tape or film. The grain (distortion) and color variations (harmonics) don't translate well when measuring film on a digital resolution scale. Why is this relevant? We all see things differently. As an owner of way too much gear (tube, SS and digital), I like having the option to switch in a tube, solid state or digital component into any given system. Certain combinations are magical and some are complete failures. The price, appearance, and in many cases, measurements of the gear are irrelevant. The only thing that really matters is the sound. After all, that's why we purchase any of this stuff. Take measurements for what they are, a single point of objective data as it relates to a component. I currently have 350's powering a set of ML CLSIIz's and couldn't be happier with the combination. Others who have listened to this combo agree. This after we listened to several other tube, SS, and digital amplifiers in the system. In the end, everything audio will be subjective. My ears and everyone else's will hear the same thing with subtle and sometimes not so subltle differences. For me, an amplifier having good headroom, dynamics and power to drive electrostats to higher listening levels and still sound amazing will always be more important than how it may measure. The Carvers beat out Levinson 33H's and a Devialet Expert 220Pro in this particular system. IMHO, for DAC's and all things that strive for exact reproduction, measurements do become much more important. In the end, as there is no speaker that can reproduce the "original" sound exactly, finding a combo that sounds good to you is simply the most important thing. . . . and yes, it is much like a cinema amplifier from the 50's or 60's and there is a reason why they have such a loyal following amonst audiophiles.
 
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fpitas

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a cinema amplifier from the 50's or 60's
Whoa. Those amps were usually quite good. One of the big beefs here is that tube amps have devolved into special effects boxes.
 

JayGilb

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The price, appearance, and in many cases, measurements of the gear are irrelevant. The only thing that really matters is the sound. After all, that's why we purchase any of this stuff. Take measurements for what they are, a single point of objective data as it relates to a component.
Welcome to ASR.

squarepegroundhole-1.jpg
 

mhardy6647

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My humble .02 as an owner . . . In my experience, the tube sound (aka distorted) versus SS (clean) or digital (clinical) of amplification is analogous to the difference between film, tape and digital video. Every type of film has a "character" that makes it differ from another as do valve amps. If you want 8K HD video, you don't shoot tape or film. The grain (distortion) and color variations (harmonics) don't translate well when measuring film on a digital resolution scale. Why is this relevant? We all see things differently. As an owner of way too much gear (tube, SS and digital), I like having the option to switch in a tube, solid state or digital component into any given system. Certain combinations are magical and some are complete failures. The price, appearance, and in many cases, measurements of the gear are irrelevant. The only thing that really matters is the sound. After all, that's why we purchase any of this stuff. Take measurements for what they are, a single point of objective data as it relates to a component. I currently have 350's powering a set of ML CLSIIz's and couldn't be happier with the combination. Others who have listened to this combo agree. This after we listened to several other tube, SS, and digital amplifiers in the system. In the end, everything audio will be subjective. My ears and everyone else's will hear the same thing with subtle and sometimes not so subltle differences. For me, an amplifier having good headroom, dynamics and power to drive electrostats to higher listening levels and still sound amazing will always be more important than how it may measure. The Carvers beat out Hafler 33H's and a Devialet Expert 220Pro in this particular system. IMHO, for DAC's and all things that strive for exact reproduction, measurements do become much more important. In the end, as there is no speaker that can reproduce the "original" sound exactly, finding a combo that sounds good to you is simply the most important thing. . . . and yes, it is much like a cinema amplifier from the 50's or 60's and there is a reason why they have such a loyal following amonst audiophiles.
^^^ interesting comment, interesting timing.

PS Welcome to ASR! Stick around -- in all seriousness, it's one of the most active and fundamentally welcoming audio sites today.
PPS Paragraphing. It's a thing.
 
D

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The only thing that really matters is the sound. After all, that's why we purchase any of this stuff.

I look at it differently.
For me, the highest priority of "what matters" is the music. I would rather listen to music I love on an AM radio than listen to music I hate on the best system that the world has to offer.
My second highest priority is to listen to what is on the recording. The differences in nuance, the depth of staging, the bandwidth necessary for full orchestral presentations ... these are all important to me. I find that modern tube gear (I'm not talking about the vintage designs that strove for low distortion and high stability) do not serve my purposes.

My priorities are best served by competently designed solid-state devices. Lest you think that I am not familiar with tube gear, I was brought up on tube gear. I didn't own my first transistor amp until 1967. I didn't totally abandon tube gear until sometime after 1982.

Some people today like affected sound. That's fine; to each their own. But be careful proselytizing; at any given moment, there are well over 1,000 people scanning our site. Your laudatory comments can nudge others (many of them tyros) to spend money they can ill afford to lose on gear that they will find inapt for their purposes.

Good SS gear is less expensive. After all, niche hobbies can be very expensive. SS is easily available and (from what I have seen in my little corner of the world) vastly more satisfactory to the majority of people.

Enjoy. :)

Jim
 
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fpitas

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Certain combinations are magical and some are complete failures. The price, appearance, and in many cases, measurements of the gear are irrelevant. The only thing that really matters is the sound.
If you have infinite money and time, that may be a valid approach. Many people don't, unfortunately. A very real pitfall of that approach is that you end up with numerous expensive items that don't function well in any sense.
 

GXAlan

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My humble .02 as an owner . . .

Thanks for sharing. Like any Internet forum, you’ll have critics and trolls on every end. Since this site is heavily focused on measurements, it may feel hostile at times, but it is a valuable resource where differences of opinion do exist. You do have tube and vinyl fans here, even though it’s not accurate.

One thing that measurements help is to showcase the difference between something like the 275 and 350.

On paper, you might not think there is a big difference as long as you remained within the power envelope. But the measurements showed that the 275 blew its fuse way too early while the 350 comes closer to its promised specifications.
 

cabinum

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Don't want to get too off-topic, but been lurking here for a very long time. I do love me some SS gear and own several highly rated components here on ASR - just ask my wife! Seriously though, it's a "spice" thing for me. I have SS and tube versions of preamps, amps, and cd players to pair with studio monitors, electrostats, horns and traditional dynamic cone speakers and prefer different genres of music with different combos. @Jim Taylor , you are right, this can be a very "financially engaging" hobby, and I'm not pointing anyone in any given direction, but would rather add some subjective context to an objectively oriented forum. In the end, just don't be afraid of listening to something because of its measurements. You may miss out on exactly what your ears are looking for. @mhardy6647 Yeah, that was kinda stream of consciousness there. I'm typically a stickler for language etiquette, but it was fun to just let it roll for a minute .
 

DSJR

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I didn't invest initially in a 'sound' - at least I don't think so. Instead over the decades and as my expertise grew a little, I tried to go for 'non sound' in my gear as much as I could (I've had far 'better' in the past than the mostly inherited vintage stuff I use today), thereby allowing the music to flow unimpeded or altered hugely. Occasionally, I'll get my Quad II's out and let them charm the pants off me, but my refurbished Quad 303 does this too and with rather more power - doesn't look as nice though.

I'm afraid I was stung by these little beasties, 100W (apparently each) of four a side thrashed to death EL34's. Things were bright and forceful for six months, neutral subjectively for the next few months and then terminally dull thereafter, replace the output valves and repeat...

Genesis Monos.jpg




My current power amp of choice is fifty years old, still performs well, looks crap but it allows me to easily hear differences in recordings which a former amp I had didn't as it made everything sound nice, painting in broad of colourful strokes.

DSCF0592.JPG
 

egellings

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If you have infinite money and time, that may be a valid approach. Many people don't, unfortunately. A very real pitfall of that approach is that you end up with numerous expensive items that don't function well in any sense.
That, and their resale value is a tiny fraction of their purchase price.
 

SIY

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My humble .02 as an owner
My condolences.

If you try doing comparisons of amplification ears-only and level-matched, your conclusions might be a bit different. But that takes more effort than just swapping, peeking, knob twiddling, and exclaiming, "Oh, wow!" (And I confess to being guilty of doing that for many years until I tried without peeking...)
 

Matt_Holland

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I have a theory/hypothesis..
[admins please feel free to move this to another thread, e.g. Measurements are everything…]

First there is my assertion that the sound signature that the majority of tube amp fans enjoy is the sense of a more palpable, “in the room” sound. Where the soundstage seems to take on a more visceral, three dimensional feeling compared to a typical SS amp, and where a voice or instrument has a sense of individual tonal character. The same assertion applies also to vinyl replay, and we know that vinyl and valves often go hand in hand. This sound signature is not accurate, but an “enhancement” or more fairly, a caricature compared to accurate reproduction.

So what might cause this. We’ve all heard the sound of vinyl pops and clicks, amplifiers sending thumps and cracks to the speakers when switched on or off. Or the sound sent to the speakers of an interconnect or speaker cable being connected/disconnected whilst the system is on.

These are all very “real” visceral sounds. Absolute there. In the room. These sounds have not come via microphones, pre-amps, tapes, mixers, etc during the recording process. Distortion from an amp or cartridge could be argued to be a similarly visceral and immediate because it comes from the system itself, not the recording.

Now, if an amplifier or cartridge superimposes these visceral distortions onto all sounds coming through the system, then could we argue that the original sound is modified in a way such that it becomes more visceral? More real? Because a percentage of every sound heard contains an element of the very real self-sound from the system itself.

I’m not sure if any of that makes sense even on a psychological level, let alone a scientific one. So apologies if anyone is baffled.

Does anyone know if any studies have been made regarding amplifier preference for DUTs that have audible distortion?

I am an objectivist and have an engineering background. In my past I very much enjoyed playing vinyl because the sound seemed to be more in-the-room compared to CD, despite clearly having audible distortion and other shortcomings. I’ve always wondered why.
 

fpitas

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fpitas

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When the distortion is added by DSP, instead of glowing tubes and gargantuan transformers, I bet a lot of the romance is gone :D
 
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