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How Dangerous is AI?

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kemmler3D

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How do you provide motivations, good motivations for self aware synthetic brains? That is thing to be worked out. Is it base level programming the Ai is not even aware of or cannot go against just like humans have some craving and motivations impossible to ignore because it is written in their DNA? Will someone figure out other ways to accomplish the same thing. Until this happens, Ai will be at most advanced tools.
I think it's fine for AI to remain an advanced tool. If it never does anything we don't ask it to do, great. The issue is making sure that it doesn't do anything we don't INTEND it to do, either. The classic paperclip maximizer scenario, but unpredictably complex...

That said, I would love if we had an AI good enough to put it in charge of government. People are notably awful at it.
 

kemmler3D

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I am not sure that there really is a case for this casual anonymity we have been sucked into. If you can think of a knock out case where cheap and easy online anonymity makes sense I would like to try to understand it and change my mind.
That's easy, the Hong Kong protests in 2019 and the protests in Iran this year could not have been organized (without lethal backlash) unless organizers were able to communicate anonymously online.
 

Timcognito

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That said, I would love if we had an AI good enough to put it in charge of government.
"Those people in Washington know what they are doing or they won't be there" Lilly Tomlin
 
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By definition, we will never "understand" our subjective understanding - there is an unresolvable recursion here. At the same time, I will never know if you are already an AI avatar, or you if I am an AI avatar. The Turing test no longer works.
Some philosophers are aligned with you. I am not entirely although I respect your argument. In my view we are objectively studying the phenomena of consciousness when we perform epilepsy surgery for example. The surgeon probes into your experience with electricity when looking for the area that causes the seizures, the patient guides the surgeon by what they are consciously experiencing. The brain can and is studied objectively, and even the most subjective things like a tickle are becoming open to explanation. Brain science has a lot of data, and it is complex like nuclear physics, there are a lot of theories that seek to explain it. No theory of consciousness has succeeded, but I am not in the "it is mathematically impossible" camp and no explanation is possible on fundamental grounds. John Searle at Cal said we must understand that epistemic explanations are different than conscious ontologies which he thinks opens a path to explanation and I tend to agree.
 

blueone

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Would you let AI pick your spouse?
It would probably work better than the way a lot of men pick a spouse, which is by who they're physically attracted to.
What to wear?
I know my spouse would answer ABSOLUTELY, for choosing what I wear.
What shoes feel the best on a long walk or jog?
That's silly. Only I know my feet.
AI is limited to its inputs and as biosensors improve it may tell us what is best. But it won't replace that person inside that tells you something is right or wrong.
Inside? No no! That's what spouses and parents do. At least with AI I can turn it off, so I'm fine with it, should a sentient AI ever be created.
 

antcollinet

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If we create an AGI it will be utterly alien. It won't think like us, it won't share our values. We don't know how to make it do either, and even if we did there is little chance of coordinating all development to meet that requirement.

Make that significanlty more intelligent, faster and more capable than the human brain, and connect it to the internet, and that is a scary proposition.

It is only a matter of time - pandora's box is open.
 

MRC01

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By definition, we will never "understand" our subjective understanding - there is an unresolvable recursion here. At the same time, I will never know if you are already an AI avatar, or you if I am an AI avatar. The Turing test no longer works.
Ah, but if that happens, you will know that you don't know. And that differentiates you from a Turing machine ;)

I'm not so sure we'll never understand these mental states. Even if it is infinite recursion (maybe it is, maybe it is something else), we can understand infinite recursion with mathematical precision. Sometimes infinite recursion asymptotically approaches a finite limit. Sometimes it explodes. We also understand different sizes of infinities, at micro and macro scales. And not only understand them, but describe and manipulate them with mathematical precision in number theory and topology.

An example may bring this abstractness down to Earth. We've all had the "AHA" experience when you are studying something difficult or complex, and you suddenly have this flash of insight, to finally understand it. Before that point, you solved problems by blindly following formulas without understanding it. But suddenly, you understand it at a new level. And you can apply this understanding to gain new insight into the problems you were already solving, and to solve problems of greater complexity, in new ways with greater efficiency.

If our brains are nothing more than Turing machines, this AHA experience is nothing more than code, or a set of formal instructions. What is the code that implements this "AHA" experience? Now if the AHA experience was just an emotion, you could say the code is something like, fire this neuron to trigger that gland to release some seratonin. But the AHA experience is more than an emotion. It involves the discovery and storage of a new intuitive abstract model, that you store in your memory and apply at increasing levels of abstraction to solve new problems.

We must all consider the possibility that such code might exist, but if so, nobody has ever devised what that code is. Before coding it, we would first have to understand what the AHA experience is in the first place, and we haven't even gotten that far. That is why all AI and ML are based on pattern recognition. We understand how pattern recognition works, well enough to devise coded instructions that can run on a Turing machine. But for other human cognitive states, like "geometric intuition" or "cause and effect understanding", nobody understands what they are, let alone how to code them. That is why no AI or ML has these other modes of human cognition. Which raises the obvious question whether it is even possible to encode these as formal instructions for a Turing machine.
 

Timcognito

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As I said I'm dyslexic and AI could be very helpful with my brain to keyboard miscues, proofing misses and flip-flops. Fact checking will never be replaced without verified and accountable inputs and there is the biggest danger, that people will treat it like they treat Wikipedia. I guess I'm not so worried but not Pollyanna ether. Over and Out.
 

spigot

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AI can get back to me when it can translate one language into another without sounding completely unfamiliar with both languages. It's currently an 80's parser with access to the internet for additional content. Just dumb programs that bear no resemblance to brains.
 

rkbates

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Two (of many) entirely plausible paths:
1) Given the disturbingly high number of suicides caused by online bullying, AI could be deployed on all social media to remove the bullies. Maybe even the trolls from ASR as well.
2) Given that most of us have many sheep like characteristics, AI could be deployed to manipulate us over time modify our belief system on what is acceptable and unacceptable behaviour.
Who choses which path is taken?
 

Elitzur–Vaidman

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Here is a great summary of the primary concern with AGI:
The public version of ChatGPT (GPT3.5) and GPT-4 aren't of existential concern, but there is an active debate as to whether GPT-5 is likely to be an AGI.
 

Timcognito

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Triliza

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Right, so Musk want them to stop for some time so he can purchase them afterwards for pennies, then use the AI to replace most of the employees :D

I haven't read many things on this topic, but at some point I read a thing or two about determinism (from a philosophical point of view), and found that view (backed up by some scientific research about our brain in general) a bit discomforting, regarding how we go about our daily lives. About AI and the threat to us, I don't think it lacking emotion will ensure it not acting against us.

It can reach the conclusion to act for different reasons, say it was make to follow directives, general ones like save the humans or the planet for example. In that case, we may be doomed, it will try to eliminate the causes and will see us and most of our activities as a threat eventually. Oh, and the cows too (too many gas). Give it access to hacking tools and knowledge and you have the way. Not that I see that happening in my lifetime, but in the far future it may be a possibility.
 

MRC01

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... I haven't read many things on this topic, but at some point I read a thing or two about determinism (from a philosophical point of view), and found that view (backed up by some scientific research about our brain in general) a bit discomforting, regarding how we go about our daily lives. ...
We live in a universe that is fundamentally probabilistic. That's not a sufficient condition for us to have freewill, but it is a necessary one. This is the only kind of universe in which free will is possible.
 

AdamG

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julian_hughes

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Q: "How Dangerous is AI?"​

A: It is very dangerous indeed to companies, institutions and organisations who have been betting big on AI but have suddenly discovered that there is at least one massively resourced competitor out there which is already stomping all over them. Solution: demand an enforced pause so we can catch up! Please, please, pretty please!
 

kemmler3D

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We live in a universe that is fundamentally probabilistic. That's not a sufficient condition for us to have freewill, but it is a necessary one. This is the only kind of universe in which free will is possible.
Free will as it's normally conceived is a really flawed concept: My choices ultimately come from me, and me alone, unconstrained by the outside world, is about it?

Okay, what part of me isn't also part of "the outside world"? Hmm, there isn't one.

And what does it mean to be unconstrained by the outside world, anyway? Not subject to the laws of physics?? Violating causality??

How can anything come from nothing? And if our choices do come from something, then how can they be "free"?

Just being nondeterministic doesn't make free will self-causing, it just makes it semi-random, maybe.
 
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