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Electrostatic speakers?

preload

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[We’ve had this discussion on ASR with another esteemed member not so long ago…] It’s the matter of definition of “movement”: yes, the volume of ‘laterally moved/displaced‘ air you’ve estimated is probably correct. However, being a wave, the acoustic wave [front] propagates farther and father, with the original air displacement - through transformation from its kinetic motion to air-pressure increase… and then back to motion… and so on - causing the wave to propagate, and as a result to bring more and more air molecules to motion.

So, ultimately, the motion of the diaphragm is responsible for bringing to motion (not lateral, but back-and-forth, just like AC current electrons) the entire volume of air as far as the wave-front travels. And the diaphragm provides the energy for all that motion.

I guess that works. The lawyers can sit back down now.
 

acoustat

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Acoustat 2+2 with Soundlab are the best brands in the field of electrostats.
With the right amplifiers they leave many cone loudspeakers far behind...
 

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anmpr1

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Acoustat 2+2 with Soundlab are the best brands in the field of electrostats.
With the right amplifiers they leave many cone loudspeakers far behind...

Tall Acoustats were OK, but as with many loudspeakers, it was never as simple as plug and play. First, you needed a lot of space around the panels. About three or four feet out from any side/back boundary worked best, IMO. Next, because of their height, you didn't have vertical 'beaming'--i.e., you could stand up or sit down and still experience a familiar sonic image. However, like many electrostatics, horizontally, you had the 'head in the vice' effect. Move a little to the left, or right, and the image fell off dramatically. Sit on the side of the sofa, or in the adjacent easy chair, and you wished you had bought something else.

Next, Acoustats required a hefty amplifier; one with plenty of low impedance capability. You wouldn't want a tube amp, or a run of the mill 80 watt integrated. Acoustat's Jim Stickland's Trans Nova FET amp worked well. That was about the minimum you'd want. Even with a lot of watts, I always felt that dynamics tended to be constricted. But it's been a long time since I owned them, and memory is often not the best arbiter of reality.

Acoustat sold a lot of loudspeakers at various price points. I was kind of surprised when they went south, given their market penetration. I think that at the time of their demise the higher end audio industry was experiencing a general contraction. Local dealer replaced the line with Magnepan. But I didn't judge those quite as interesting a loudspeaker. They were tall and thin, and possibly exuded a more attractive cosmetic, but sounded completely different. I give that company credit for weathering the storm, and sticking to what they do best. As far as I know, you can still buy a Magneplanar.

My experience with Soundlab was positive, but I never heard them in an ideal listening room. Like Acoustat, a large room was necessary. I think that is one reason small shoeboxes are as popular as they are. You don't need a lot of beef to drive them, and they don't take up much living room real estate. You certainly don't expect something like an Acoustat or Soundlab to perform well in an apartment sized room. That, along with the waifu feng shui thing. It's hard to hide a Sound Lab.
 

fpitas

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Sheesh, all I've heard is the old KLH Model 9s. Driven by a decent tube amp, no less. Were they any good?
 

anmpr1

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Sheesh, all I've heard is the old KLH Model 9s. Driven by a decent tube amp, no less...

Nines were a different electrical animal. Built at a time when watts were dear. 16 ohms, as opposed to Acoustats which were probably 4 ohm (or less), in the real world. Very expensive, but that's the electrostatic scene for you.

Oddball anecdote: Julius Futterman's H3x OTL amps were fit for use with Nines (and Quads). Happy with 16-30 ohm loads. When Harvey Rosenberg took over production, along with a new design (marketed as NYAL), he claimed that warranty work on his monster (both in size, weight, and cost) amps were mostly due to customers using them with low impedance speakers,-- Acoustats or, even more outrageous, Apogee ribbons.

Now, it's true that Harvey was, in many respects, the PT Barnum of high-end, but I have no reason to doubt him in this regard.
 

gnarly

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I visited the factory to hear a pair of Amie monitors which I was considering purchasing at the time. The room they and the Blue Horns were in was treated extensively and thus utterly reflection free -- like an anechoic chamber and likely mimicking a recording studio at Skywalker sound and the likes. Furthermore it was about double the length that it actually appeared with a screen facade built to look like a wall behind the listener in the interest of capturing and eliminating reflections.

I was unimpressed by the Amies as they sounded diminutive at the midfield listening distance. I think they were trying to mimic the horn loading characteristics of a large cinema speaker at a small scale for production purposes. The takeaway in this instance was that a wave guide or no horn loaded monitor is a better option for near field studio monitoring. I ended up with a pair of Genelec Ones.

The Blue Horns were outstanding and I believe that is true, they were designed to be the flattest and most phase accurate monitors ever made and nothing leads me to assume otherwise based on my listening experience. They were in an LCR configuration with a supplementary 18" inch woofers at 15ish feet I would guess. I asked about the Blue Horns compared with the previous top of the line X10s and the engineer whom I was with described the X10s as something to the effect of the most balls to the walls Meyersound has ever produced. I believe the Blue Horns feature a JBL2450H compression driver with a stamped aluminum diaphragm which Meyersound manufactures in house. I'm not certain about the woofer though maybe something proprietary or a Ciare with a proprietary coated cone. They sounded like headphones in terms of directivity and clarity. I think due to the room treatment the sound wasn't as lively as a handful of other listening experiences I've had, though perhaps and most likely the most accurate speakers I've ever heard. The engineer also mentioned something to the effect that an analog signal remains the most robust means of transmitting audio. Presumably this means that DSP was avoided where possible when designing the speaker. I would consider purchasing a pair. The blue (color) horn is not my favorite aesthetic for a home environment though they look badass in a studio. And furthermore I'm a very curious person and have a desire to experiment with different drivers, and also favor the simplicity of a well designed two or three way system driven by adequately powered tube amps. The other consideration at that price point would be a pair of JBL Everest 67000s and perhaps the Hyperions. Highly expensive and highly recommended speakers.

Here's a photo of the room:

View attachment 148464
Milezone, re-skimming the last few pages in this thread, I see i never thanked you for the excellent, generous reply you gave to my question about your Bluehorn experience.
My bad ..and THANK YOU :)
 

JustJones

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Sheesh, all I've heard is the old KLH Model 9s. Driven by a decent tube amp, no less. Were they any good?

Newer version.

 

anmpr1

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Better off getting rid of the Waifu thing and keeping the Labs?

Now that's the correct hardcore audiophile response. Good man. However, if you can find a women who is accommodating, that's even better. I told her I wanted to try out some moderately sized speakers. She asked, "What size?" I said, "Think washing machine/dryer combo." She thought a minute, and replied, "Don't worry, honey. I can disguise them with a silk scarf, a few plants, and some trinkets." Then she did. Now, no one knows they are there.

k.jpg
 

Jazzman53

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Now that's the correct hardcore audiophile response. Good man. However, if you can find a women who is accommodating, that's even better. I told her I wanted to try out some moderately sized speakers. She asked, "What size?" I said, "Think washing machine/dryer combo." She thought a minute, and replied, "Don't worry, honey. I can disguise them with a silk scarf, a few plants, and some trinkets." Then she did. Now, no one knows they are there.

View attachment 275958
We should all be so lucky... Jesus, she probably bakes bread too!
 

computer-audiophile

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Despite no longer owning them, I do not regret my time with electrostats.

You have to own panel speakers at least once in your life to earn all the audiophile merit badges.

It reminds me of the French chanson of Edith Piaf "No, je ne regrette rien" :)

Good comment, that's how I see it too. I started with ESL panels from Rennwald (Heidelberg, Germany) at the end of the sixties. And later had professionally refurbished Braun LE1s in the nineties. A outstanding design in the Bauhaus tradition by Dieter Rams.

But these were only examples of dozens of good loudspeakers I owned in the course of my audio bio. I never really got on with ESL. Their sound is very transparent, but has too little body in my opinion. Unfortunately I don't know any combinations with bass speakers that work well, but I observed many attempts to do so.

I have also been to the company from my link here more than once, where big quad experts sit and could listen to many versions. My best friend has a quite expensive new system from them with subs. Honestly not my cup of tea.


In the end, I tend to go for horn systems for large speakers/rooms and compact studio monitors in the near field.
 

AdamG

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Now that's the correct hardcore audiophile response. Good man. However, if you can find a women who is accommodating, that's even better. I told her I wanted to try out some moderately sized speakers. She asked, "What size?" I said, "Think washing machine/dryer combo." She thought a minute, and replied, "Don't worry, honey. I can disguise them with a silk scarf, a few plants, and some trinkets." Then she did. Now, no one knows they are there.

View attachment 275958
The old Doily trick. Looks like she not only makes bread but can shoot and harvest her own venison as well. What’s not to love about that!
 

SIY

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Now that's the correct hardcore audiophile response. Good man. However, if you can find a women who is accommodating, that's even better. I told her I wanted to try out some moderately sized speakers. She asked, "What size?" I said, "Think washing machine/dryer combo." She thought a minute, and replied, "Don't worry, honey. I can disguise them with a silk scarf, a few plants, and some trinkets." Then she did. Now, no one knows they are there.

View attachment 275958
The hell with the speakers, tell me about the shotgun.
 

computer-audiophile

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Now that's the correct hardcore audiophile response. Good man. However, if you can find a women who is accommodating, that's even better. I told her I wanted to try out some moderately sized speakers. She asked, "What size?" I said, "Think washing machine/dryer combo." She thought a minute, and replied, "Don't worry, honey...
I am lucky enough to have a wife who is also very tolerant about such things and is even interested in good sound herself. For example, she had no problem with a pair of Altec A7 Vott in our living room. That's just by the way:

index.php
 

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Dismayed

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I’ve owned Martin Logan speakers for 30 years. I started with the original Aerius. They were great with chamber music, less so for full orchestral music or rock. I then had reQuests, which were good, although woofer integration wasn’t great. Now I have the Impression 11a which are, IMHO, stunningly good. Amazing detail.
 

computer-audiophile

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I’ve owned Martin Logan speakers for 30 years. I started with the original Aerius. They were great with chamber music, less so for full orchestral music or rock. I then had reQuests, which were good, although woofer integration wasn’t great. Now I have the Impression 11a which are, IMHO, stunningly good. Amazing detail.
I am not up to date on the Martin Logans. I am sure there is progress. In any case, these are very good speakers of a superior class.
 

RayDunzl

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I am not up to date on the Martin Logans. I am sure there is progress.

The MSRP of one with a 15" wide panel has gone from $4500 (1998) to $29000 (2023).

That pretty much ended my looking at a new pair.

1680193538996.png


I then had reQuests, which were good, although woofer integration wasn’t great.

I have reQuests from 1998, now with a little DRC applied to tame the in-room woofer response.
 

Dismayed

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The MSRP of one with a 15" wide panel has gone from $4500 (1998) to $29000 (2023).

That pretty much ended my looking at a new pair.

View attachment 275994



I have reQuests from 1998, now with a little DRC applied to tame the in-room woofer response.
The company was purchased by a private equity firm. Their first action was to raise prices. I went with the 11 inch panel because I found an open box deal.
 

RayDunzl

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The company was purchased by a private equity firm. Their first action was to raise prices. I went with the 11 inch panel because I found an open box deal.

BonziBuddy says:

1680194996843.png


I thought they were still under Paradigm.

Oh well.

I consider myself "finished" buying audio gear, unless something breaks.

My next hobby-related "big ticket" thing will be a newish glider and trailer.

Refer to Soaring thread if interested.
 
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