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Need help! KEF R11 very subdued

symphara

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Hello everyone, new to this forum so apologies if not following soft rules. I just purchased a pair or KEF R11 speakers. The previous owner used the speakers with high -end McIntosh gear. Unfortunately before I picked up the speakers he had sold the amp, so couldn't test. But since speakers are still under warranty and seller seemed extremely reliable I took a leap of faith.

I have a pair of ML prodigy, 702s2, kef wireless 2...and used to their sounds and really like them.

After bringing R11s home, I hooked them up to emotiva xpa1 monoblocks (600wpc @8) - bi-wired. Turned the Link knob all the way counterclockwise. Ready for a listen, and I am shocked how subdued the sound is. Like remarkably poor high frequency response, poor volume... forget about soundstage! Volume seems quite low as well.

So wondering if you are aware if these sound like how I am experiencing or I have bad combination or something I am completely unaware of. Please chime in, and thanks in advance.
I understand you didn't listen to these particular R11 speakers before, but did you listen to KEF R series speakers before? Did you know what to expect?
 

raindance

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The B&W tweeters are not omni but they do have wide dispersion at some frequencies. The KEF has far more controlled dispersion at all frequencies so you need to be in the sweet spot height-wise for best results.
 
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HelloAJ

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I understand you didn't listen to these particular R11 speakers before, but did you listen to KEF R series speakers before? Did you know what to expect?
My expectations were based primarily on my experience with the LS50 (meta) wireless ii of which I absolutely love the sound. To be precise, I didn't listen to KEF r11 before making this purchase, but made an extrapolation based on the LS50 experience. As of now I am underwhelmed but going to setup the LS50 w ii next to r11 and compare at least the high and mid frequency experience. Thank you
 

fieldcar

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Are KEF lot more directional?
Compared to most speakers, I would say that they are a bit more narrow than average, but not over the top.

Also, these should be a sensitivity of 90dB @2.83V(probably at 100Hz only though), which means that even the most basic 15W amp would be able to drive them to mid to high levels before distortion. It seems like something is wrong with the speakers. Can you try to run them without the bi-amping? I would also check every single driver while playing pink noise.

Kef R5 for reference. It should be very similar in directivity. https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/kef_r5/
Kef%20R5_360_Horizontal_Polar.png
 

HarmonicTHD

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If the difference is so day and night including the low volume, as you describe, then there is something else wrong. Not that slight (2dB roll off) “warm” in room response. (Sure the B&W are known to be overly bright, but still your description sounds quite dramatic of a difference)

See if you can verify if all tweeters, woofers are actually working.

Edit. What comes to mind. To only test the coaxial tweeter. Open the bi wiring interconnects at the back of the R11 (I think counterclockwise). Then disconnect the “bass” cables (make sure you don’t short anything). Play music or if you can test tones from 500 Hz up. See if it sounds odd. Or even take a REW measurement.
 
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nerdstrike

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Nice having the blue and grey cables for +/-. Is the other of the pair the same? Just because I got them the wrong way round and was confused for a while by weird sound.

You definitely want to be able to rule out that Mr McIntosh damaged the coils with his mighty amps...
 

-Matt-

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Height of the tweeters are low but that's my usual listening height. B&W has these omnidirectional tweeters so height didn't matter I guess. Are KEF lot more directional? Do you tow in the KEF speakers? Maybe it's true I am used to bright speakers.

Looking at the photo from your main listening position...

Yes I'd try toeing the R11s in to aim straight at you.

I'd also try removing all of the flowers etc from the coffee table (I always think this makes a difference here although it is possibly placebo).

Finally, when you speak of low volume, is it that you don't want to turn it up further because the sound becomes boomy? Or is the amp maxed out? If the former, it could be that the R11s are a bit too close to the rear wall and almost tucked in against the fireplace. If you can bring them out a bit further you may reduce the bass reinforcement and get a more balanced sound that you prefer. (Consider also plugging the rear ports to taste).
 
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-Matt-

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By the way, I'm interested in your case as I'd been considering the Kef R series to replace my current B&Ws.

The Kef R frequency responses and directivity look so smooth and well behaved but I was worried about the tweeter height because I also have a coffee table. Also, in the smaller models bass extension looks poor, but that wouldn't matter as I'd be using subs anyway.
 

pjn

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Height of the tweeters are low but that's my usual listening height. B&W has these omnidirectional tweeters so height didn't matter I guess. Are KEF lot more directional? Do you tow in the KEF speakers? Maybe it's true I am used to bright speakers.
The Kefs are pretty neutral, but those B+Ws do have a "showroom" profile (bright and more bass) as per the post by thewas
 

Battlebeast

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The B&W tweeters are not omni but they do have wide dispersion at some frequencies. The KEF has far more controlled dispersion at all frequencies so you need to be in the sweet spot height-wise for best results.
I don't find that to be anywhere near the truth even with my entry level Q series. IMO the best thing about the UniQ driver is that the sweet spot is big. Off axis response is so good I can sit anywhere on a 4 person sofa at around 8-9' and still be in the sweet spot. At least that's my experience and the reason that when I upgrade it will be another set of Kefs.
 

raindance

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I don't find that to be anywhere near the truth even with my entry level Q series. IMO the best thing about the UniQ driver is that the sweet spot is big. Off axis response is so good I can sit anywhere on a 4 person sofa at around 8-9' and still be in the sweet spot. At least that's my experience and the reason that when I upgrade it will be another set of Kefs.
I said height wise as it is a multi driver array. Horizontally it's great, which is what you're saying, so we are both saying exactly the same thing.
 

HarmonicTHD

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By the way, I'm interested in your case as I'd been considering the Kef R series to replace my current B&Ws.

The Kef R frequency responses and directivity look so smooth and well behaved but I was worried about the tweeter height because I also have a coffee table. Also, in the smaller models bass extension looks poor, but that wouldn't matter as I'd be using subs anyway.
See if you can find a dealer where you can listen or even better bring them home to you.
 
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Tremolo

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I am afraid that if you like your B&Ws you need to train your ear to the KEF sound. BTW, from the picture your stands seems so high (3 feet, maybe?), why?
 

-Matt-

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I'm sure the previous post was addressed to the op but for me...

I currently use Audyssey eq (full range) so I guess that is taming my B&Ws high freqencies anyway. I find them great in general but occasionally there are hints of sibilance that grate (might actually be from the surrounds). The appeal of the Kefs (either R, or reference if I can find a good enough deal) is their smooth response, which should reduce how much work Audyssey needs to do. (It runs out of headroom on some midrange dips).
 
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HelloAJ

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I am afraid that if you like your B&Ws you need to train your ear to the KEF sound. BTW, from the picture your stands seems so high (3 feet, maybe?), why?
I made them for my bedroom to match the chest height (bed is high as well). Overall WAF and aesthetics nothing else...
 

CDMC

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Two suggestions:

1) Record each set of speakers playing the same music at the same volume from your listening position with your cell phone and post it. It will allow others to ascertain the approximate differences you are hearing.

2) Try listening to them for a few days, then switching back to your B&Ws and see if they sound bright and thin.
 

tehas

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Hello everyone, new to this forum so apologies if not following soft rules. I just purchased a pair or KEF R11 speakers. The previous owner used the speakers with high -end McIntosh gear. Unfortunately before I picked up the speakers he had sold the amp, so couldn't test. But since speakers are still under warranty and seller seemed extremely reliable I took a leap of faith.

I have a pair of ML prodigy, 702s2, kef wireless 2...and used to their sounds and really like them.

After bringing R11s home, I hooked them up to emotiva xpa1 monoblocks (600wpc @8) - bi-wired. Turned the Link knob all the way counterclockwise. Ready for a listen, and I am shocked how subdued the sound is. Like remarkably poor high frequency response, poor volume... forget about soundstage! Volume seems quite low as well.

So wondering if you are aware if these sound like how I am experiencing or I have bad combination or something I am completely unaware of. Please chime in, and thanks in advance.
You could use an SPL meter (or an app on your phone?) to test if the KEFs are playing at a significantly lower volume, that can't be explained by sensitivity differences.

If you have access to a measurement microphone, you could also do a more in depth measurement of each individual speaker, ensure they match and break out the treble components for comparison to your B&Ws.
As an example, I thought this thread and member did a great job debugging a broken crossover on one of his Revel F208s https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...le-revel-f208-with-low-midrange-output.30070/
 

tehas

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You could use an SPL meter (or an app on your phone?) to test if the KEFs are playing at a significantly lower volume, that can't be explained by sensitivity differences.

If you have access to a measurement microphone, you could also do a more in depth measurement of each individual speaker, ensure they match and break out the treble components for comparison to your B&Ws.
As an example, I thought this thread and member did a great job debugging a broken crossover on one of his Revel F208s https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...le-revel-f208-with-low-midrange-output.30070/
If you have access to a dealer or friend with a known-good set of R11s, you could measure those for comparison.
 
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