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I dont think the output impedance of the DAP was the issue. Its ability to deliver enough current to low impedance drivers might be though.
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Dan Clark Audio Aeon 2 Closed, Aeon 2 Noire and Stealth
- Thread starter nonnyno
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Sorry, I'm talking about power output. You can see an example on the amp I use for Stealth:
Ampersand - Centrance
AMPERSAND Headphone Power Amplifier Portable Amplifier with balanced XLR and Pentaconn outputs delivers up to 6W of audio power. Hear your planar headphones come alive with Ampersand’s clean, confident, and quiet power. SHOP NOW CEntrance / HEDD combo had punch, ample low-end, clarity, and...
centrance.com
Notice power output drops as you go further below 48 ohm. For my listening habits, I feel around 2W @ 23ohm is required for proper sub-bass response. Amir touched on this in the G5 review, which I believe is 1.1W at 23ohm; I expect the DX320 would have similar output to G5. As to whether that matters to you, only you can decide. DCA recommends 500mW @ 23 ohm
Yannick Willox
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I just got my aeon2 noire. We have 4 HD650 in our studio, never really satisfied with them.
the Noire is more comfortable, it feels bigger, not heavier. I dont have big ears, but the hd650 cups are only just big enough. When going out for a recording, I actually need to shave my ears, or I will hear hair rustling against the pads, making me wonder if I have digital clicks on a recording !
Returning to the HD650 after listening to the Noire makes it feel and sound like a toy (the Senn). of course it does not help that the hd650 foam parts simply disappear every 1-2 years. It is the main reason I never looked at a 800.
The DCA is - first impression - a lot closer to our reference monitoring system.
Jimster480
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Frequency response is just one part of the picture though I have found that two headphones with similar frequency response but not exact can sound wildly different in different tracks
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Can the iBasso dx160 handle the Noire? What is the impedance?
staticV3
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The Noire has an impedance of 13Ω.
At 13Ω, the DX160 can output 1.35Vrms before clipping, via its Bal output:
Measurements are from ReferenceAudioAnalyzer, here.
According to Dan Clark Audio, 1.35Vrms is enough to push the Noire to 113.5dB SPL Peak (Very loud).
Unfortunately there are no 3rd party, independent measurements of the Noire's sensitivity.
Got a set of used Noire cans but there seems to be a large channel imbalance. Left side is 3-6db lower. Tested cables (0.4ohm), tested drivers (both 13ohm), checked pad seal, checked that ports aren't plugged by covering them and listening for change and tried different sources. Every source I had to reduce right side by 3-6db.
Does anyone have any any other ideas before I send these off to DCA to get repaired? Are there active electronic components in the cup, connectors or anything else I could check first?
Cheers
Does anyone have any any other ideas before I send these off to DCA to get repaired? Are there active electronic components in the cup, connectors or anything else I could check first?
Cheers
I don't have the hands-on chops to help with troubleshooting, but you might call ahead to Dan Clark Audio. I have found them accessible and helpful in providing phone support in the past.
I have the Noire, and am disappointed to hear of your experience, because DCA supposedly now tests and matches the levels and FR curves to a pretty tight tolerance for each Noire before it goes out the door, and even if yours are used, it's not nice to hear that it's possible. (Though the early production runs may not have had the same careful quality control, which they implemented -- to my best recollection -- after the Noire had been launched.)
I have a RMA number already but it's costly to ship it from Canada. I am guessing something must be just wrong with the driver. DCA support wasn't sure what else I could check either.
The Noire and the Aeon 2 are identical except for the ear pads and color. Noire has perforated pads and the Aeon 2 has solid faux leather pads, and the pads only account for the difference in tuning. I you have a chance to get the Aeon 2 at aggressive prices and just swap out the pads, you can sometimes get a great deal.
BTW, how did you measure the channel imbalance in the problematic Noire? 3 to 6dB is definitely detectable by the ear. I wouldn’t be surprised if a few bad phones make it out for sale.
BTW, how did you measure the channel imbalance in the problematic Noire? 3 to 6dB is definitely detectable by the ear. I wouldn’t be surprised if a few bad phones make it out for sale.
I had to correct by that much (3-6db) on several sources to get a somewhat centered image. There still seemed to be some odd tonal differences between sides. DCA is looking at em right now so hopefully they find something and I'm not just crazy!
Got them back from DCA and they said they replaced the drivers. Testing with a tone generator seem like subbass is a bit stronger on the right side still but the imaging seems to be correct now. Center seems actually center. I need to do some more testing/listening though before I come to a conclusion.
I've been testing back and forth between Keith Mcmillen K-Mix, hipdac, Qudelix 5K (3.5mm SE and 2.5mm BAL) and an Apple USB-C Dongle. I run the Apple Dongle at about 40% on my Windows PC. Anything louder I find uncomfortable. I haven't been able to notice anything anemic in the bass or sub bass when switching between any of them.
I entered the Noire's specs into the Qudelix 5K DSP section: 13ohm and 92mw/db sensitivity. It then shows you an estimate of loudness, mVolt and mWatt. The loudest I can comfortably listen to is less than 95dBSPL! Which the 5K and HeadphoneHonesty's calculator both agree takes only about 2 milliwatts. The output of the Qudelix will start turning red at around 110.9dBSPL or 76.9mW.
So there is a lot of headroom with even the $10 Apple dongle dac to drive these at the loudest volume I think I could stand. I'm not sure what I would be doing with a couple watts.
I turned them up to 110.9dBSPL according to Qudelix and that fits 1Vrms/76.9mW and my body gave me a squirt of adrenaline and I immediately pressed the pause button
I've been testing back and forth between Keith Mcmillen K-Mix, hipdac, Qudelix 5K (3.5mm SE and 2.5mm BAL) and an Apple USB-C Dongle. I run the Apple Dongle at about 40% on my Windows PC. Anything louder I find uncomfortable. I haven't been able to notice anything anemic in the bass or sub bass when switching between any of them.
I entered the Noire's specs into the Qudelix 5K DSP section: 13ohm and 92mw/db sensitivity. It then shows you an estimate of loudness, mVolt and mWatt. The loudest I can comfortably listen to is less than 95dBSPL! Which the 5K and HeadphoneHonesty's calculator both agree takes only about 2 milliwatts. The output of the Qudelix will start turning red at around 110.9dBSPL or 76.9mW.
So there is a lot of headroom with even the $10 Apple dongle dac to drive these at the loudest volume I think I could stand. I'm not sure what I would be doing with a couple watts.
I turned them up to 110.9dBSPL according to Qudelix and that fits 1Vrms/76.9mW and my body gave me a squirt of adrenaline and I immediately pressed the pause button
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Well after a ton of testing different sources, songs, tones, swapping L/R, physically swapping L/R via the cable, checking to see if seal is affecting <120hz and rebalancing songs in Reaper I feel like the Noire's center is still shifted right. I need to adjust like 10-15% to get what feels like center.
Can't reproduce the issue with my Hi-X60 and seems to be a problem on a bunch of sources. Right driver still louder swapping L/R connectors.
Ordered a 4-pin XLR adapter to test the stock cable as I have no 4-pin output. Not sure how it could be the cable when swapping L/R connectors doesn't make it change sides though.
I can tell you that a Surface pro 8 can run them to useable levels before very audible distortion. Keith McMillan K-Mix can drive them to useable levels as well on low gain mode but will start distorting near the max. MBP14 drives them better. Haven't encountered distortion within my volume range. Nor have I encountered distortion my USB-C dongle.
Edit: Kind of tired of these at this point. With R Trim -3.5 to -4 these sound centered. Going to try and grab some foam do a measurement of each side later. Will do a measurement of each side of my Hi-X60 as well. See if I can quantify it.
Can't reproduce the issue with my Hi-X60 and seems to be a problem on a bunch of sources. Right driver still louder swapping L/R connectors.
Ordered a 4-pin XLR adapter to test the stock cable as I have no 4-pin output. Not sure how it could be the cable when swapping L/R connectors doesn't make it change sides though.
I can tell you that a Surface pro 8 can run them to useable levels before very audible distortion. Keith McMillan K-Mix can drive them to useable levels as well on low gain mode but will start distorting near the max. MBP14 drives them better. Haven't encountered distortion within my volume range. Nor have I encountered distortion my USB-C dongle.
Edit: Kind of tired of these at this point. With R Trim -3.5 to -4 these sound centered. Going to try and grab some foam do a measurement of each side later. Will do a measurement of each side of my Hi-X60 as well. See if I can quantify it.
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I made a foam plate with an Oktava MK-012, plugged it into my Keith McMillen K-Mix and installed REW. Obviously I am new to measurements and tried my best for consistency. I did 10 measurements each side a few times and averaged them while making sure to exclude any crazy outliers. I measured my Apple USB-C Dongle DAC, Austrian Audio Hi-X60 and Dan Clark Audio Aeon Noire.
Apple Dongle DAC: No issues here. Matching so close they overlap almost completely
Austrian Audio Hi-X60: Seems pretty reasonable considering the measurement setup
Dan Clark Audio Aeon Noire: Tried more pressure, less pressure, masking tape around pad/driver housing, reseating pad, swapping cable L/R but nothing really made a difference. I am wondering if there some sort of seal issue with the left cup, pad or port. Else the driver is just Fubar.
Edit: I covered the port after sealing the left unit and have to redo graph.
Apple Dongle DAC: No issues here. Matching so close they overlap almost completely
Austrian Audio Hi-X60: Seems pretty reasonable considering the measurement setup
Edit: I covered the port after sealing the left unit and have to redo graph.
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It would be have been better if I hadn't of covered the port on the second attempt to seal with masking tape while measuring. Looks a lot closer now after uncovering the port with this seal job.
The Noire and the Hi-X60 are the most comfortable headphones I have ever had. Love the sub bass on both of them. I would say the Noires have more bass quantity though. Neither of them seem to cause me any listening fatigue. Running the Noire without the white notch filters. I think the Hi-X60 would be somewhat brighter and a bit more polite. Both seem fairly versatile and I haven't found that either of them are terrible for any music in particular. They both take EQ quite well. The Hi-X60 is a bit easier to drive but the Apple USB-C Dongle DAC runs the Noire way louder than I comfortably listen. They both fold up into about the same amount of space but the Hi-X60 only comes with soft bag. I bought a Geekira shell for them so I don't accidentally squash them.
Not sure which one I prefer yet. It's been a tough go with the Noire so far. Hopefully I can get this pair sorted out.
So noire are not superior to the hi-x60?
thx again.
They're both kind of different. I quite like dynamic drivers. There is some plastic on the Hi-X60 compared to the Noire but both seem to have very good build quality. The Hi-X60 pads don't roll/twist/buckle and for me have always just worked. The single sided cable is light, doesn't tangle and isn't microphonic.
I haven't had a fully working pair of Noire yet since I purchased them so I haven't had much time with them. I think the Hi-X60 are great and like half the price. I'm thinking I'll keep one dynamic and one planar set of cans anyway.
AudioKC
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Just got Noir 2, added to my Focal Elegia and Focal Elex.
IMO overall sound quality, placement
1. DCA Noir 2 - bass, speed, details
2. Focal Elex - dynamics, scene, separation
3. Focal Elegia - kind of mix of two above, but very “paper” sounding bass and lower midrange for me. To warm, to flat kinda…
Anyway, Noir 2 for 900$ is worth it. Great closed back sound.
Don’t hate me too much, but it can be driven from apple dongle just fine on average loudness.
At desktop I use modi+ and heresy amp.
IMO overall sound quality, placement
1. DCA Noir 2 - bass, speed, details
2. Focal Elex - dynamics, scene, separation
3. Focal Elegia - kind of mix of two above, but very “paper” sounding bass and lower midrange for me. To warm, to flat kinda…
Anyway, Noir 2 for 900$ is worth it. Great closed back sound.
Don’t hate me too much, but it can be driven from apple dongle just fine on average loudness.
At desktop I use modi+ and heresy amp.
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