Neumann KH 150 Monitor Review

[DJBonoBobo]

This is very strange. My KH 120s are anything but "dark", "dull", "veiled"... In fact, their treble sound almost too much for me. I did not compare them to any of the Genelecs, but their crispness in the treble immediately stood out for me compared to my HEDD Type 07 MK2s, which are definitely not dark and have very detailed highs. It took some time for me to get used to the Neumann's tweeter.

And I wonder if you tried to adjust the treble on the Neumanns. Could this be caused by your listening environment?

It has been explained to Pearljam at least 3 or 4 times already why Neumanns sound darker than Genelecs, at least in farfield conditions. I don't know why he refuses to accept this explaination and still pretends to know nothing.
In short, because you are not him: If you compare the spinoramas you can see clear differences in sound power between i.e. the KH120 and KH150 vs. 8351. Genelec emitts more treble energy into the room, that's why they are often perceived as brighter, even though the on axis FR is the same. The difference should be smaller or irrelevant under near field conditions. No mystery there.

 

[Pearljam5000]

It has been explained to Pearljam at least 3 or 4 times already why Neumanns sound darker than Genelecs, at least in farfield conditions. I don't know why he refuses to accept this explaination and still pretends to know nothing.
In short, because you are not him: If you compare the spinoramas you can see clear differences in sound power between i.e. the KH120 and KH150 vs. 8351. Genelec emitts more treble energy into the room, that's why they are often perceived as brighter, even though the on axis FR is the same. The difference should be smaller or irrelevant under near field conditions. No mystery there.

They still sound different even in near field
Why? it's beyond me
It's not only brightness , they feel more "open " less veiled somehow

 

[teashea]

It has been explained to Pearljam at least 3 or 4 times already why Neumanns sound darker than Genelecs, at least in farfield conditions. I don't know why he refuses to accept this explaination and still pretends to know nothing.
In short, because you are not him: If you compare the spinoramas you can see clear differences in sound power between i.e. the KH120 and KH150 vs. 8351. Genelec emitts more treble energy into the room, that's why they are often perceived as brighter, even though the on axis FR is the same. The difference should be smaller or irrelevant under near field conditions. No mystery there.

Good explanation.

 

[unpluggged]

It has been explained to Pearljam at least 3 or 4 times already why Neumanns sound darker than Genelecs, at least in farfield conditions.

Well, I did not deny that Genelecs sound brighter, I just pointed out that Neumanns do not sound veiled or dark to me at all, even to the contrary of that: very clear, neutral and with a very present high-end extension.

But i wish you would hear some Genelecs and could tell me if you felt the same

I agree, but the last time I had an opportunity to listen to them I immediately noticed their hiss, in contrast to Neumanns. As I did not have the time to listen to them (I came to the showroom for a different reason) and was not looking for new speakers back then, I did not. Later this impression of hiss levels from Genelecs did influence my choice towards the Neumanns when I had to relocate and leave behind my HEDDs (one of which had failed around that time), and I do not regret it.

 

[paudio]

I get fatigued easily with lots of speakers and headphones. Seems like I've got rather sensitive hearing and apparently I listen at a lot lower levels than lots of people. O410s don't fatigue me which is a definite plus. I have not had a listen to any of the Genelec The Ones.

 

[Vadimchik]

should i buy one kh750 for kh150? do they sound good with only two?

 

[DJBonoBobo]

should i buy one kh750 for kh150? do they sound good with only two?

If 1 KH750 is enough for you, 1 KH750 is enough. If you need 2, you need 2.

 

[Vadimchik]

If 1 KH750 is enough for you, 1 KH750 is enough. If you need 2, you need 2.

thank you

 

[teashea]

If 1 KH750 is enough for you, 1 KH750 is enough. If you need 2, you need 2.

Neumann says you need two

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Neumann says you need two

My point is that there is absolutely no mystery about the capabilities of the KH750 and the KH150. If you you need more SPL than 1 KH750 can deliver, you need 2. If you don't, you don't. It is the same as with any other speaker.
Yes, i know, if you need the full SPL-potential of the 150, you also need 2 KH750s. So, if you use only 1, your system is limited by the sub, of course. And if you use KH80 it does not matter, because the system is limited by the 80s anyway. But who knows what one needs. I only have 2 KH750 because i thought it may help smoothing out the FR (it did not) and because i cannot put the sub in between the mains, so i can avoid the localisation of the bass if i use 2 subs. I never even come halfway close to the SPL limits of the system.
In short: Which and how many subs someone needs is not determined by the main speakers.

Everything about this is so trivial, logical and transparent - why is there a never ending discussion about it?

 

[teashea]

My point is that there is absolutely no mystery about the capabilities of the KH750 and the KH150. If you you need more SPL than 1 KH750 can deliver, you need 2. If you don't, you don't. It is the same as with any other speaker.
Yes, i know, if you need the full SPL-potential of the 150, you also need 2 KH750s. So, if you use only 1, your system is limited by the sub, of course. And if you use KH80 it does not matter, because the system is limited by the 80s anyway. But who knows what one needs. I only have 2 KH750 because i thought it may help smoothing out the FR (it did not) and because i cannot put the sub in between the mains, so i can avoid the localisation of the bass if i use 2 subs. I never even come halfway close to the SPL limits of the system.
In short: Which and how many subs someone needs is not determined by the main speakers.

Everything about this is so trivial, logical and transparent - why is there a never ending discussion about it?

Actually it is more complicated. I suspect that the Neumann audio engineers know what they are talking about. If one wants balanced sound then it is necessary to have two KH750 subs with KH150's.

 

[thewas]

Also it shouldn't be forgotten that subs are not only used to increase SPL or bass extension but can be used also to reduce multitone distortion and fill bass dips which is important also at non max SPL listening.

 

[Markus @ Neumann]

Hello,

I will try to get clarify some things regarding this topic:

It is the case that for normal modern music or classical music with reasonable bass content and a statistically large studio a pair of KH150s can deliver more max SPL than a single KH750. So if one wants to play the 150s to their max SPL he needs to use 2 or more KH750s. In smaller rooms the room can gain compensate that.
That doesn‘t mean that a system of 2 KH150 cannot be bass-managed by just one KH750. In most cases one is very likely enough. And even if not, it is not a big deal (despite the necessary money) to first start with one KH750 and in case max SPL in not sufficient to get another one.

Even if the subwoofers are not playing at their max SPL the more one has the lower the distortion level is because every individual has to play less loud.

Another aspect is the handling of room modes. If two or more subwoofers are used lateral or vertical modes can be reduced way better that if you just have one if you have the possibility to play with their position. So in general with more smaller subwoofers it is more likely to get a smoother bass response and less resonances than with less bigger ones.

My recommendation is: Start with one and upgrade if necessary despite money doesn’t matter.

With best regards,

Markus

 

[teashea]

Hello,

I will try to get clarify some things regarding this topic:

It is the case that for normal modern music or classical music with reasonable bass content and a statistically large studio a pair of KH150s can deliver more max SPL than a single KH750. So if one wants to play the 150s to their max SPL he needs to use 2 or more KH750s. In smaller rooms the room can gain compensate that.
That doesn‘t mean that a system of 2 KH150 cannot be bass-managed by just one KH750. In most cases one is very likely enough. And even if not, it is not a big deal (despite the necessary money) to first start with one KH750 and in case max SPL in not sufficient to get another one.

Even if the subwoofers are not playing at their max SPL the more one has the lower the distortion level is because every individual has to play less loud.

Another aspect is the handling of room modes. If two or more subwoofers are used lateral or vertical modes can be reduced way better that if you just have one if you have the possibility to play with their position. So in general with more smaller subwoofers it is more likely to get a smoother bass response and less resonances than with less bigger ones.

My recommendation is: Start with one and upgrade if necessary despite money doesn’t matter.

With best regards,

Markus

In most cases one KH750 is not enough with KH150's. I think that the Neumann audio engineers have the knowldege in this area.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

In most cases one KH750 is not enough with KH150's. I think that the Neumann audio engineers have the knowldege in this area.

 

[Sokel]

In most cases one KH750 is not enough with KH150's. I think that the Neumann audio engineers have the knowldege in this area.

It was the manufacturer you replied to,I think he knows what he's talking about.

 

[DJBonoBobo]

Also it shouldn't be forgotten that subs are not only used to increase SPL or bass extension but can be used also to reduce multitone distortion and fill bass dips which is important also at non max SPL listening.

Of course, but that's the case with any speaker and sub. Disturbingly many people seem to think the KH150 is somehow different and needs 2 KH750 out of magical reasons, because a Neumann representative mentioned it in a subordinate clause.
I hope the intervention of @Markus @ Neumann (who is Neumann's lead engineer for studio monitors for decades, @teashea) can stop this madness.

 

[danbei]

Not to mention the Neumann representative's statement was actually clear from the start: "In order to fully exploit the power delivery capacity of the KH150 you would actually need two KH750".

Spoiler: Introducing the Neumann KH 150 (Part 3) - YouTube

Thank you Markus@Neumann for making this even clearer.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Is this better than a pair of KH750?

 

[Rednaxela]

Not if you like the benefits of a multiple subwoofer arrangement.