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Uptone ISO Regen Review and Measurements

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Here is another DAC I have, the iFi micro iDSD.

It is a $500 DAC. The measurements are with its pre-amp bypassed. With it, it has increased distortions.


Usual story remains:

1 ) Uptone Iso Regen provides no reduction of noise or distortion/jitter. There is for example some low frequency random noise that widens our main tone at 12 Khz. It is the same with and without Iso Regen.

2) Increased AC mains (hum) induced again in the output of the DAC when run through Iso Regen (seen in red).
Hi dear Amir, thanks to your great work. I'm still on babe steps on this kind of stuff. I'm hesitating between a used but stay in good status IFI Micro iDSD silver version at nearly 330USD and a new Topping D50 250USD. Does IFI silver has significantly better performance than Topping D50? Which one would you recommend. Thank you.
 
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Hi dear Amir, thanks to your great work. I'm still on babe steps on this kind of stuff. I'm hesitating between a used but stay in good status IFI Micro iDSD silver version at nearly 330USD and a new Topping D50 250USD. Does IFI silver has significantly better performance than Topping D50? Which one would you recommend. Thank you.
I have one of those. Will measure and post the results. I will also sell mine since it has been sitting eating dust for a long time. :)
 

FockerRN

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This is very surprising to me. I have a background in psych and typically am very wise to the placebo-type issues with audio...I have not done blind abx testing, mainly because I don't prefer to turn my hobby into a science experiment, but the ISO regen with the stubby connector and LPS2 PSU sure seemed to make a difference to my ears. I'm really shocked to see the measurements not indicate *anything* going on.

I've always battled within my mind re: objective vs subjective. I tend to always fall on the side of science, but on the other hand, it doesn't make sense to me that *everything* audible is measurable. I really don't know what to make of this, because this was quite a stark contrast when I first installed this thing. There is a possible confounding variable, however, in that I did upgrade to a different amp (Woo Audio WA7 with tube PSU) within 30 days of adding the Iso Regen...but I felt I had accounted for that.

Very odd.
 

Sal1950

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This is very surprising to me. I have a background in psych and typically am very wise to the placebo-type issues with audio...I have not done blind abx testing, mainly because I don't prefer to turn my hobby into a science experiment, but the ISO regen with the stubby connector and LPS2 PSU sure seemed to make a difference to my ears. I'm really shocked to see the measurements not indicate *anything* going on.
So you can run the blind tests yourself and find out if what you think you hear is real, or not
The numbers speak for themselves.
 

FockerRN

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So you can run the blind tests yourself and find out if what you think you hear is real, or not
The numbers speak for themselves.

That's the part I always go back and forth on. I just am not a believer that everything audible is measurable. So I tend to lean toward the science, but also incorporate an aspect of subjectivity. Sometimes I just find things that don't measure well to be enjoyable. For example, Sennheiser headphones tend to usually measure well when tested, whereas Grados do not. However, I find there are aspects of Grados that I just find more enjoyable, and every time I audition a Sennheiser headphone (with the exception of the HD650), I usually end up passing on it. That's why I tend to avoid turning it into a science project and run all sorts of experiments. I acknowledge the objective, but ultimately for me it's about enjoyment...so I allow my ears to be the final judge.

That being said, I just bought a Topping dac b/c of this site...lol
 

Frank Dernie

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That's the part I always go back and forth on. I just am not a believer that everything audible is measurable. So I tend to lean toward the science, but also incorporate an aspect of subjectivity. Sometimes I just find things that don't measure well to be enjoyable. For example, Sennheiser headphones tend to usually measure well when tested, whereas Grados do not. However, I find there are aspects of Grados that I just find more enjoyable, and every time I audition a Sennheiser headphone (with the exception of the HD650), I usually end up passing on it. That's why I tend to avoid turning it into a science project and run all sorts of experiments. I acknowledge the objective, but ultimately for me it's about enjoyment...so I allow my ears to be the final judge.

That being said, I just bought a Topping dac b/c of this site...lol
I am pretty sure that everything audible is measurable but equally sure that the fact that a piece of kit has a flat frequency response and inaudible distortion doesn’t mean everybody will like it.
A huge number of very popular pieces of kit have either significant frequency response variations, or audible levels of (presumably euphonic) distortion or both, measurements show this but a lot of people prefer it.
 
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I just am not a believer that everything audible is measurable.
Why? How can you change the sound waves out of a product without any trace of it in any measurement? I am not saying the measurements explain what you hear. But that measurements MUST CHANGE if the sound waves have changed.
 

FockerRN

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Why? How can you change the sound waves out of a product without any trace of it in any measurement? I am not saying the measurements explain what you hear. But that measurements MUST CHANGE if the sound waves have changed.

Mainly because over the years I've heard gear - headphones, mainly - that measured basically identical to each other, but sounded vastly different. I have no doubt that you, and probably everyone else here, are far more advanced in your analysis of objective measurement than I...but it just doesn't make logical sense to me that music reproduction (or any form of art) can be reduced to numbers and graphs. I came here to learn, though, not to dispute or argue. That's just my own take based on my own experience with this hobby.
 

FockerRN

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I am pretty sure that everything audible is measurable but equally sure that the fact that a piece of kit has a flat frequency response and inaudible distortion doesn’t mean everybody will like it.
A huge number of very popular pieces of kit have either significant frequency response variations, or audible levels of (presumably euphonic) distortion or both, measurements show this but a lot of people prefer it.

Well, if you care to share, how does one reliably measure timbre and soundstage? Two of my favorite qualities of audio reproduction that I've never seen any reliable measure of.
 

Sal1950

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.but it just doesn't make logical sense to me that music reproduction (or any form of art) can be reduced to numbers and graphs.
The part where you go astray is that music creation is art. Music reproduction is a science.
 

FockerRN

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The part where you go astray is that music creation is art. Music reproduction is a science.

I don't disagree. But that's not really getting at my point. My point isn't that the science/measurement part isn't useful or accurate. My point is that the entirely of music reproduction (and all that is audible) is not fully measurable in my experience.
 

Sal1950

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I don't disagree. But that's not really getting at my point. My point isn't that the science/measurement part isn't useful or accurate. My point is that the entirely of music reproduction (and all that is audible) is not fully measurable in my experience.
What two components that measure identical sound different under blind conditions?
 

Soniclife

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My point is that the entirely of music reproduction (and all that is audible) is not fully measurable in my experience.
Can you detail the tests and results that lead you to believe this.
 

Sal1950

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Frank Dernie

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Well, if you care to share, how does one reliably measure timbre and soundstage? Two of my favorite qualities of audio reproduction that I've never seen any reliable measure of.
AFAIK there is no way to measure those directly. What we can measure is if the equipment will reproduce the timbre or soundstage captured in the recording accurately.
If the recording is not so good an accurate Hi-Fi won’t fix it.
The only thing I have experienced is the addition of low level noise, not noticeable as noise at all, increased the width and depth of the stereo image. It was a series of tests to see why the poor performance of record players isn’t so obvious. Added distortion and crosstalk didn’t have a blatant effect, raising the noise floor did.
 
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