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Will this DAC/AMP stack be a very noticable upgrade compared to only using the MacBook audiojack?

ManilaPirate

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Forgive me if I'm asking something quite obvious, but I am new to this and would greatly appreciate your advice.

I recently bought a pair of Sennheiser HD600, and it's the first time I'm listening to music with such good headphones. I wanted to try this out since my 2021 MacBook Pro apparently supports high-impedance headphones straight from its audiojack.

To me, everything sounds great — but then again, I have no prior experience other than "regular" headphones and AirPods. I've been reading up on DACs and AMPs, and wanted to seek your advice here. The supply of DAC/AMP units are quite limited in my country, but I found a couple of Topping products. The stack I've been looking at is their A30 Pro and D30 Pro.

How much more would you guess I could get out of my HD600 headphones by using a Topping A30 Pro + D30 Pro stack, compared to simply listening directly through the high-impedance jack of my computer?

On another note, I feel like I've been tumbling down the rabbit hole ever since purchasing these headphones. Aside from streaming Lossless audio, I got the Soundsource app and added a Headphone EQ profile for HD600 by Oratory1990. If you have more suggestions for enhancing the listening experience, I'd be happy to hear it.

PS. This forum was like finding a treausre. Thank you guys.
 

Veri

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On another note, I feel like I've been tumbling down the rabbit hole ever since purchasing these headphones. Aside from streaming Lossless audio, I got the Soundsource app and added a Headphone EQ profile for HD600 by Oratory1990. If you have more suggestions for enhancing the listening experience, I'd be happy to hear it.

PS. This forum was like finding a treausre. Thank you guys.
I feel the A30/D30 Pro stack will in fact sound similar to the MacBook, because its onboard sound solution is in fact quite good. The Topping however will have power to spare, especially after the equalisation done through SoundSource (I use this app too, it's great!!).

But the A30 Pro will have much more power on tap than your HD600 will need, that is for sure. Will it work well? Sure. Will it sound worlds better? Remains to be seen. Possibly you'll be hard pressed to hear any improvement. That would be my take..
 

staticV3

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I wanted to try this out since my 2021 MacBook Pro apparently supports high-impedance headphones straight from its audiojack.
Every headphone jack supports high impedance headphones. Doesn't matter if it's an expensive dedicated Amp, a dongle, your old 2011 MacBook, or a Kindle. They all support high impedance headphones.
What Apple did with the new MacBooks is increase the maximum output voltage compared to the previous models, meaning that headphones can now play louder.
How much more would you guess I could get out of my HD600 headphones by using a Topping A30 Pro + D30 Pro stack, compared to simply listening directly through the high-impedance jack of my computer?
You will be able to play the headphone louder through a dedicated stack, but if you set it to the same volume as on your MacBook, it'll sound the same.
If there's enough volume for you with the HD600 plugged straight into your MacBook, then getting a stack is a waste of money.
Aside from streaming Lossless audio, I got the Soundsource app and added a Headphone EQ profile for HD600 by Oratory1990. If you have more suggestions for enhancing the listening experience, I'd be happy to hear it.
Awesome! If I may suggest one thing: I did a poll a while ago where I asked a bunch of people to compare different EQ presets for the HD600, including oratory's preset.
The preset that sounded best to most people (including myself) was this one:
Preamp: -6.9 dB Filter 1: ON PK Fc 30 Hz Gain 6.4 dB Q 0.44 Filter 2: ON PK Fc 169 Hz Gain -2.1 dB Q 0.90 Filter 3: ON PK Fc 5781 Hz Gain -4.6 dB Q 2.42 Filter 4: ON PK Fc 6765 Hz Gain 4.1 dB Q 2.80 Filter 5: ON PK Fc 10155 Hz Gain 4.5 dB Q 1.49 Filter 6: ON PK Fc 773 Hz Gain 0.9 dB Q 1.36 Filter 7: ON PK Fc 1299 Hz Gain -1.1 dB Q 2.35 Filter 8: ON PK Fc 2797 Hz Gain -1.0 dB Q 3.68 Filter 9: ON PK Fc 4212 Hz Gain 1.5 dB Q 5.14 Filter 10: ON PK Fc 4427 Hz Gain -0.6 dB Q 2.47

It's also attached as .txt file below, which you can import straight into Soundsource via the Headphone EQ function. Here's how.

Give it a try, maybe you'll like it too!
 

Attachments

  • Sennheiser HD 600 ParametricEQ.txt
    462 bytes · Views: 77

charleski

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The MBP 2021 can go to 3Vrms with a high impedance headphone, which will be enough to drive the HD600 to just over 114dB, so it's unlikely you'll notice a difference in power. But Apple's headphone outs have historically had quite high impedance ('<24ohms') which may interact with the large 100Hz hump in the Sennheiser's impedance curve and accentuate the upper bass. That can be fixed in your EQ however.
 

staticV3

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But Apple's headphone outs have historically had quite high impedance ('<24ohms') which may interact with the large 100Hz hump in the Sennheiser's impedance curve and accentuate the upper bass.
The new MacBooks have 0.12Ω Zo, so this is not a problem.
Source
 

jae

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If it is an M1 Pro/Max the jack has enough power for HD600 series and measures well, you should not need really need more power. With EQ you will have a bit less headroom

 
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ManilaPirate

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Thank you everyone for your quick replies. This means a lot to me.

You have helped me understand both my own computer's audiojack more, as well as DAC/AMPs. If being able to play music at a higher volume is the only noticeable upgrade from getting this stack, then I certainly don't need one.

Right now, my computer can crank up the volume a lot when using the HD600. With maximum volume in the music app, setting the system volume to 60-70% is sufficient; anything more and it starts to hurt in my ears. Plenty of room to spare.

[SIZE=4]staticV3[/SIZE] I tried your preset, and it sounds great! Thank you for posting this. I used the textfile you attached, and added "Preamp: -6.9 dB" at the top (it was not included in the textfile). Honestly, I prefer this one to the Oratory1990 version. I will switch between them a few more times, but the one you linked feels more "right" in my ears.


When using a Headphone EQ like this, should I avoid applying any other EQs in my music app and/or Soundsource? For example: Using the "Rock" preset when listening to Rock music.

Lastly, if I want to improve my listening experience further; are there other things I may have missed? Or have I "maxed" out my options with a pair of headphones like the HD600?
 

Veri

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When using a Headphone EQ like this, should I avoid applying any other EQs in my music app and/or Soundsource? For example: Using the "Rock" preset when listening to Rock music.

Lastly, if I want to improve my listening experience further; are there other things I may have missed? Or have I "maxed" out my options with a pair of headphones like the HD600?
-This will change the mix of course, if you like the effect it's fine but with well mastered music, just the headphone EQ should do the trick.
-I don't think you missed anything :) don't buy extra nice cables or such things, the sound is already "maxed" so to speak ;)
 

Multicore

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Lastly, if I want to improve my listening experience further; are there other things I may have missed? Or have I "maxed" out my options with a pair of headphones like the HD600?
Certainly you have not run out of options. There's a very great deal of music you haven't yet listened to through this competent listening system. I'd say that's your options now, and I bet there's lots you have missed.

What have you been especially enjoying recently?
 

staticV3

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When using a Headphone EQ like this, should I avoid applying any other EQs in my music app and/or Soundsource? For example: Using the "Rock" preset when listening to Rock music.
Do what sounds best to you :D
There's no right or wrong here.
 
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ManilaPirate

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I'm so glad I found you all, and this forum. I was about to pull the trigger on a DAC/AMP stack, believing it would dramatically improve the sound quality.
You have unscrambled my mind after watching people dissect DAC/AMPs down to a molecular level on YouTube.

What have you been especially enjoying recently?

I enjoy everything from 1950s/1960s music to Classical music and Classic Rock. Most often the latter. It's been amazing to hear everything in such greater detail.
I've been scouring Apple Music for Hi-Res Lossless music lately.

Here's a classical list I like:

I wish Rolling Stones had more tracks in Hi-Res. But other groups like Led Zeppelin and Heart have plenty of great sounding tracks in Hi-Res.


If any of you have playlists that you think sound great, I'd love it if you'd consider sharing them here.
 
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twsecrest

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Forgive me if I'm asking something quite obvious, but I am new to this and would greatly appreciate your advice.
I recently bought a pair of Sennheiser HD600, and it's the first time I'm listening to music with such good headphones. I wanted to try this out since my 2021 MacBook Pro apparently supports high-impedance headphones straight from its audiojack.
To me, everything sounds great — but then again, I have no prior experience other than "regular" headphones and AirPods. I've been reading up on DACs and AMPs, and wanted to seek your advice here. The supply of DAC/AMP units are quite limited in my country, but I found a couple of Topping products. The stack I've been looking at is their A30 Pro and D30 Pro.
How much more would you guess I could get out of my HD600 headphones by using a Topping A30 Pro + D30 Pro stack, compared to simply listening directly through the high-impedance jack of my computer?
On another note, I feel like I've been tumbling down the rabbit hole ever since purchasing these headphones. Aside from streaming Lossless audio, I got the Soundsource app and added a Headphone EQ profile for HD600 by Oratory1990. If you have more suggestions for enhancing the listening experience, I'd be happy to hear it.
PS. This forum was like finding a treausre. Thank you guys.
You might consider getting an OTL (pure) tube headphone amplifier, the 300-Ohm Sennheiser HD600 gets positive reviews from people using them with a tube amp.
 

Veri

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You might consider getting an OTL (pure) tube headphone amplifier, the 300-Ohm Sennheiser HD600 gets positive reviews from people using them with a tube amp.
A huge (and perhaps only) part of the joy is in the aesthetics of glowing warm tube lamps though. I've dabbled in such amps and reselled them: I didn't hear any magic. If anything, an OTL amp with its high output impedance will muddy/inflate the mid-bass a bit. That's mostly it..
 

twsecrest

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DVDdoug

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Every headphone jack supports high impedance headphones. Doesn't matter if it's an expensive dedicated Amp, a dongle, your old 2011 MacBook, or a Kindle. They all support high impedance headphones.
What Apple did with the new MacBooks is increase the maximum output voltage compared to the previous models, meaning that headphones can now play louder.
Right. But higher impedance headphones tend to need more voltage to get the same volume because with higher impedance it requires more voltage to get the same power (watts/milliwatts).

You might consider getting an OTL (pure) tube headphone amplifier, the 300-Ohm Sennheiser HD600 gets positive reviews from people using them with a tube amp.
There's no advantage to using 1950s technology. :p

Tubes do operate at high voltages so driving high impedance headphones shouldn't be a problem. With low impedance headphones you might need a transformer so OTL might not be optimum with regular lower-impedance headphones (depending on the design).

But you don't need "high voltage" going-into high or low impedance headphones. It just has to be adequate. It's cheaper & easier to build a good amplifier with solid state electronics.
 

twsecrest

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Right. But higher impedance headphones tend to need more voltage to get the same volume because with higher impedance it requires more voltage to get the same power (watts/milliwatts).

There's no advantage to using 1950s technology. :p

Tubes do operate at high voltages so driving high impedance headphones shouldn't be a problem. With low impedance headphones you might need a transformer so OTL might not be optimum with regular lower-impedance headphones (depending on the design).

But you don't need "high voltage" going-into high or low impedance headphones. It just has to be adequate. It's cheaper & easier to build a good amplifier with solid state electronics.
Do agree low impedance (Ohm) headphones are not the best choice for use with OTL (pure) tube headphone amplifier (damping issue).
But I do like what tube headphone amplifiers do for my 250-Ohm headphones.
 

Multicore

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I'm so glad I found you all, and this forum. I was about to pull the trigger on a DAC/AMP stack, believing it would dramatically improve the sound quality.
You have unscrambled my mind after watching people dissect DAC/AMPs down to a molecular level on YouTube.



I enjoy everything from 1950s/1960s music to Classical music and Classic Rock. Most often the latter. It's been amazing to hear everything in such greater detail.
I've been scouring Apple Music for Hi-Res Lossless music lately.

Here's a classical list I like:

I wish Rolling Stones had more tracks in Hi-Res. But other groups like Led Zeppelin and Heart have plenty of great sounding tracks in Hi-Res.


If any of you have playlists that you think sound great, I'd love it if you'd consider sharing them here.
I'm not an audiophile so I don't seek recordings on the basis of their technical qualities. I just want the playback gear to not interfere with my listening (which of course means it need to be well engineered equipment). So I'm not choosing for you based on that.

Classic Rock, eh? Do you know SF Sorrow by The Pretty Things? They were better than the stones, maybe even better than the stones with jones. Classical music: how about something baroque: Palestrina adapted by guitarist Noël Akchoté. And for no reason at all, Jon Hassell's last album.

Gear can be fun but isn't necessarily the end point of the hobby, although it can be.
 
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