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Headphones for recording piano

jdav

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Hi,

I currently own a Sony WH-1000XM3 and a Sennheiser HD800S. I use the latter for mixing and the former while recording, but the difference in sound quality is obviously quite big. I was looking for a closed headphone with good ambient noise isolation (not necessarily active cancelation) with better sound quality than my Sony.

I really need the isolation as I want to hear the recording sound only and not the direct sound from the piano when recording (and pianos are quite loud as you might know). Noise reduction almost never appear on spec sheets except for active noise cancelling headphones, which don't necessarily have good sound quality for monitoring.

I once tried an AKG K371, but compared to the other two it's obviously quite worse (who would have thought), and the sound isolation is not good enough.

What is a good alternative? My budget is max 400-500$.

Thank you
 

staticV3

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Beyerdynamic DT 700 Pro X
Austrian Audio Hi-X60
Dan Clark Audio Aeon Closed X

The Dan Clark needs some kind of Amp, so not ideal if you want to plug the headphone straight into a stage piano.
The other two are easy to drive.

You can find frequency response measurements of them and many other headphones here.

The AKG K371 would be a good choice as well, apart from two things:
Replacement ear pads can only be bought through their customer support. You can't just order them online.
They have an obvious weak point in the head band, so should be handled carefully. See here.
 
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markanini

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You might not have luck getting better seal in a closed back than AKG K371, assuming you were getting good seal. The exception are some special sets that make significant sacrifices to tonal quality, which will not help your goal of differentiating direct sound from live mic sound.

Your situation sounds like a case for IEMs.
 
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jdav

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The difference between the AKG K371 and the WH-1000XM3 in ambient sound is quite massive. Aren't there headphones that are often used in studios for recording? I guess recording studios don't have the same problem since the recording engineer might be in a different room.

But the biggest problem is that I found the sound of the AKG K371 to be quite worse than the WH-1000XM3, but I don't know how to describe it, and maybe it's juste because the WH-1000XM3 is very bass heavy, which biaised me when I listened to the K371.
 

F1308

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Hi,

I currently own a Sony WH-1000XM3 and a Sennheiser HD800S. I use the latter for mixing and the former while recording, but the difference in sound quality is obviously quite big. I was looking for a closed headphone with good ambient noise isolation (not necessarily active cancelation) with better sound quality than my Sony.

I really need the isolation as I want to hear the recording sound only and not the direct sound from the piano when recording (and pianos are quite loud as you might know). Noise reduction almost never appear on spec sheets except for active noise cancelling headphones, which don't necessarily have good sound quality for monitoring.

I once tried an AKG K371, but compared to the other two it's obviously quite worse (who would have thought), and the sound isolation is not good enough.

What is a good alternative? My budget is max 400-500$.

Thank you
As a keyboardist (Roland Fantom 8) and composer (REAPER+VSTs) I deeply invite you to try this before any other option...


I was about to buy a DC Stealth and miraculously came that review.

I now have three pairs just in case...

:):):):)

Astounding performance indeed !!!!
 

staticV3

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A bit risky though if your amp is if unknown quality, as high output impedance will lead to a boost in the Zero's bass response
 
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jdav

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A bit risky though if your amp is if unknown quality, as high output impedance will lead to a boost in the Zero's bass response
It's the one on the RME UFX II, I think I don't take much risks (it has a very low output impedance)
 
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jdav

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I have the WH-1000XM3 and the K371 side to side, and even after PEQ I found the AKG371 to sound worse, and generally is less confortable, and isolates much less.
 

staticV3

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@jdav here's the Truthear Zero vs Harman with the predicted frequency response at 2Ω output impedance:
Truthear Zero vs Harman IE2019v2.png

Since I really don't agree with the Harman In-ear target, here's the Zero vs what I consider neutral:
Truthear Zero vs IEF plus Bass Target.png
 

F1308

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@jdav here's the Truthear Zero vs Harman with the predicted frequency response at 2Ω output impedance:
View attachment 266952

Since I really don't agree with the Harman In-ear target, here's the Zero vs what I consider neutral:
View attachment 266953
Many thanks.
I simply love them.
Immensely.

Never, ever had I thought I would be playing for hours my keyboard enjoying music so much while loudspeakers-less.

In fact headphones were actually forbidden because it turned out in doubling the working load as monitors and headphones did never match and the low end of the pipe organs was always in deep trouble, badly performed.

Not anymore.

As for your curves, I totally agree, as now my pipe organs sound better than the one in the cathedral next door. Terrific.

Then comes the Stradivarius violin, Stadivarius viola, the Amati viola.... woodwinds, brass, choirs....ALMOST UNBELIEVABLE.

:):):):)
 
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jdav

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@staticV3 Is hitting those kind of target desirable when monitoring a recording?

From what I understand, you suggest I use IEMs and put earmuffs on top of them? @markanini said closed-headphone with high noise isolation usually come with detrimental sacrifices (because of the modified accoustic around the ear I guess). How is that problem not going to appear with IEMs and earmuffs?
 

someguyontheinternet

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IEMs provide decent isolation as their original purpose was monitoring on a live stage with big speakers blasting sound and a lot of people making noise. Even without custom molded ear-tips the passive isolation is often considerable in reducing ambient noise. However this will also depend on your individual ear-canal shape and whether or not you can find ear-tips that fit your ear well enough.

One additional factor to consider is what kind of range you are recording. For example a 88-key piano goes from around 25Hz up to 4.2kHz so the frequency response in that area is most important. The response above 4.2kHz is not completely irrelevant, but not as important and some deviation in that area could be acceptable. When using a extended piano or MIDI going up to the 108th key or 119 MIDI note, the response up to 8kHz will be most important.
 
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jdav

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I assume it was implied since I didn't know IEMs could provide "considerable" noise isolation. Do you think the isolation will be better than with normal closed headphones? I guess I can always put my WH-1000XM3 on top in NC mode, at the risk of degrading the audio quality (I'm not sure it will).

IEMs provide decent isolation as their original purpose was monitoring on a live stage with big speakers blasting sound and a lot of people making noise. Even without custom molded ear-tips the passive isolation is often considerable in reducing ambient noise. However this will also depend on your individual ear-canal shape and whether or not you can find ear-tips that fit your ear well enough.
Thanks for the clarification. How considerable is your considerable passive isolation? I guess it will have the same poor behaviour in the low frequencies as closed headphones have. Do IEMs usually come with different standard eartips to choose the ones that fit the best?
 
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jdav

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One additional factor to consider is what kind of range you are recording. For example a 88-key piano goes from around 25Hz up to 4.2kHz so the frequency response in that area is most important. The response above 4.2kHz is not completely irrelevant, but not as important and some deviation in that area could be acceptable. When using a extended piano or MIDI going up to the 108th key or 119 MIDI note, the response up to 8kHz will be most important.
I guess with the IEMs others recommended above it won't be an issue.
 

someguyontheinternet

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The exact amount of passive isolation will vary. Going by the couple of numbers on RTINGS I think around average 15db isolation seems a reasonable estimate for IEMs. This number is not consistent across frequencies though. The passive isolation is strongest at high frequencies and weakest at low frequencies.

Usually IEMs seem to come with a couple of sizes (small, medium, large) of ear-tips. There are many after-market ear-tips you can find though. Something like the foam tips from Comply might provide some additional isolation. Keep in mind though that eartips might also change the frequency response slightly. I don't think there is any hard data on that available though.
 
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