Subwoofer/DAC for Genelec 8020d or 8030c

[strea]

Hello all and thank you for your time. I've spent weeks now reading the forums/researching and still don't have the confidence to move forward on a purchase. Therefore, looking for some personalized advice.

Purpose of setup: Listening to music - No mixing/mastering
Room size: 11 ft x 11 ft x 9 ft - Room has thick carpet and a large bed
Listening distance: 2 feet away - Monitors will go on computer desk
Total budget: 3-4K

I have narrowed down that I like the sound of Genelec 8020d's, not sure if I need the 8030's as I will go for a subwoofer (low-end is a requirement for my listening). Any input here is appreciated.

As far as the subwoofer goes, I don't have a ton of space under my desk. I was considering the Genelec 7040a, but not sure if it would be underwhelming. Perhaps it will be okay for a room of my size? I'm not looking to shake the whole house. Otherwise, suggestions for alternative subs should have a width OR depth of no greater than 11" or 12". For example, a sub can be 15" H x 13" W x 11" D and that is okay, 15" H x 11" W x 13" D is okay as well, but 15" x 13" W x 13" D is NOT okay.

For the DAC, I was planning on RME ADI-2 DAC, but I read you need attenuators to allow the RME ADI-2 DAC to shine to it's full potential when matched with the Genelecs. I don't think I want to use those. Is there a DAC with a volume pot that will work well with the Genelecs out of the box? Looking for recommendations here.

Please let me know if you have any questions of me, thank you.

 

[staticV3]

As far as the subwoofer goes, I don't have a ton of space under my desk. I was considering the Genelec 7040a, but not sure if it would be underwhelming. Perhaps it will be okay for a room of my size? I'm not looking to shake the whole house. Otherwise, suggestions for alternative subs should have a width OR depth of no greater than 11" or 12". For example, a sub can be 15" H x 13" W x 11" D and that is okay, 15" H x 11" W x 13" D is okay as well, but 15" x 13" W x 13" D is NOT okay.

An alternative sub would be the SVS 3000 Micro. It has DSP built in, probably more output than the Genelec, but pass-throughs are only RCA compared to XLR on the 7040a.
So I'd do either 8020D+7040A all conneted via XLR, or Genelec G Two+3000 Micro connected via RCA.

As for the DAC, you honestly don't have to worry about digital vs analog attenuation. Modern DACs have so little noise that whatever noise reduction you could get by doing analog instead of digital, is far below the noise floor of your environment and speakers.
So in practice, there's no difference. You don't lose any fidelity by doing digital attenuation. Which is why I'd just choose a DAC with digital volume control built in.
Something like the SMSL C100 or Topping E30 II in case you need RCA, or SMSL D-6 or DO100 if you need XLR.

 

[strea]

An alternative sub would be the SVS 3000 Micro. It has DSP built in, probably more output than the Genelec, but pass-throughs are only RCA compared to XLR on the 7040a.
So I'd do either 8020D+7040A all conneted via XLR, or Genelec G Two+3000 Micro connected via RCA.

As for the DAC, you honestly don't have to worry about digital vs analog attenuation. Modern DACs have so little noise that whatever noise reduction you could get by doing analog instead of digital, is far below the noise floor of your environment and speakers.
So in practice, there's no difference. You don't lose any fidelity by doing digital attenuation. Which is why I'd just choose a DAC with digital volume control built in.
Something like the SMSL C100 or Topping E30 II in case you need RCA, or the SMSL D-6 or DO100 if you need XLR.

Thank you very much for your detailed reply Static. I've been a tad confused on the 3000 micro.. it says the amplifier is 800 watts whereas the Genelec 7040a is only 50 watts, such an insane difference, am I reading something wrong? I don't really need to shake the entire house although I suppose the power would be nice if I decided to go with 8030's instead of 8020's. Additionally, for the DAC I had somewhat narrowed down to the SMSL SU-9n or Topping E70.. are these overkill for my purpose? Thanks again.

 

[staticV3]

Thank you very much for your detailed reply Static. I've been a tad confused on the 3000 micro.. it says the amplifier is 800 watts whereas the Genelec 7040a is only 50 watts, such an insane difference, am I reading something wrong?

No. Keep in mind though that due to the way the human ear works, 16x higher power translates to only about 2.3x the perceived loudness, all else being equal.
Though of course we can't apply that 2.3x one to one to the 7040A vs 3000 Micro, because they use different drivers with unknown efficiency.

Additionally, for the DAC I had somewhat narrowed down to the SMSL SU-9n or Topping E70.. are these overkill for my purpose?

They're both good DACs, but I don't expect any audible differences compared to the ones above.

 

[strea]

No. Keep in mind though that due to the way the human ear works, 16x higher power translates to only about 2.3x the perceived loudness, all else being equal.
Though of course we can't apply that 2.3x one to one to the 7040A vs 3000 Micro, because they use different drivers with unknown efficiency.

They're both good DACs, but I don't expect any audible differences compared to the ones above.

I appreciate the education. I spent a few hours researching and watching reviews of the 3000 Micro and I think it's right up my alley. I like the lower extension of the Micro vs the 7040a and the SVS app that will allow me to easily lower the Subwoofer volume at night when others are sleeping. My only concern now is the RCA connection. It is easy to buy a 8020 or 8030 where I am located, but the G Two and G Three seem to be offered much less or require special order.

Is it possible to connect the Micro to a 8020 or 8030 with an RCA to XLR connector or is this bad practice / not safe? If I am spending $3000~ or so, I do not want to cut any corners with the equipment I purchase. Too bad the Micro doesn't have an XLR out. Note that the distances from my DAC to Sub to Monitors will never exceed 6 ft.

 

[staticV3]

Is it possible to connect the Micro to a 8020 or 8030 with an RCA to XLR connector or is this bad practice / not safe?

Should be possible. I'd contact Genelec Support about it and ask whether any drop in performance should be expected and what cable layout/pinout they recommend.
There are RCA to XLR cables that use a coax cable and short XLR Pin 1&3 directly at the XLR plug, and those that use balanced cables which only connect XLR Pin 1&3 at the RCA plug, like this:


The latter is usually preferred and is sold by Monoprice among others, but again, best to ask Genelec first.

 

[strea]

Should be possible. I'd contact Genelec Support about it and ask whether any drop in performance should be expected and what cable layout/pinout they recommend.
There are RCA to XLR cables that use a coax cable and short XLR Pin 1&3 directly at the XLR plug, and those that use balanced cables which only connect XLR Pin 1&3 at the RCA plug, like this:
View attachment 265226

The latter is usually preferred and is sold by Monoprice among others, but again, best to ask Genelec first.

So I found the information below in the 8030c manual. Would a cable such as this work? https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/XRM105--hosa-xrm105-5-foot

Additionally, utilizing non balanced XLR connection changes the input level (i think) from +4db to -10db. Am I then supposed to adjust sensitivity on the 8030c (denoted "INPUT dBu PRODUCING 100db SPL)? Think I am finally nearing resolution, thanks for all your help.

 

[bodhi]

I appreciate the education. I spent a few hours researching and watching reviews of the 3000 Micro and I think it's right up my alley. I like the lower extension of the Micro vs the 7040a and the SVS app that will allow me to easily lower the Subwoofer volume at night when others are sleeping. My only concern now is the RCA connection. It is easy to buy a 8020 or 8030 where I am located, but the G Two and G Three seem to be offered much less or require special order.

Have you considered getting the SAM speakers instead. You can get 8320 for about the same as 8030. Add 7350 instead of 3000 Micro and you get a killer 2.1 setup with automatic room correction which will work wonders compared to just sticking the speakers in room and fiddling with switches.

 

[strea]

Have you considered getting the SAM speakers instead. You can get 8320 for about the same as 8030. Add 7350 instead of 3000 Micro and you get a killer 2.1 setup with automatic room correction which will work wonders compared to just sticking the speakers in room and fiddling with switches.

Hey Bodhi, I appreciate your input, but the 7350 is a bit too large for under my desk and I have no other spots in my room to put it. One of my main concerns is size which is why so far I've only considered the 7040a and 3000 Micro. And this would also require a GLM kit yes? I may start to exit my budget when adding all this up.

 

[Sokel]

Have you consider any of your budget for room treatment?
This 11 X 11 is a little alarming.
The alternative is some kind of SW bass management,so some of the above proposals makes absolute sense.

 

[bodhi]

Hey Bodhi, I appreciate your input, but the 7350 is a bit too large for under my desk and I have no other spots in my room to put it. One of my main concerns is size which is why so far I've only considered the 7040a and 3000 Micro. And this would also require a GLM kit yes? I may start to exit my budget when adding all this up.

You can get 8320 and 7350 for about the same price as 8030 and 3000 Micro. The GLM kit then goes over budget but it's the same as minidsp and UMIK-1.

But if you can't fit the 7350 then you can't. Genelec subs without using GLM are just not worth it and the 7040 is not even a sub in my opinion, the 3000 Micro is far superior option and you can do some EQ with the SVS app.

 

[strea]

Have you consider any of your budget for room treatment?
This 11 X 11 is a little alarming.
The alternative is some kind of SW bass management,so some of the above proposals makes absolute sense.

What is some basic room treatment you would recommend? I have a large 6 layer latex mattress that should eat up some bass (not sure if that's how it works), but I'm open to hearing suggestion. Note that the goal here is listening pleasure, not looking to have a perfect studio etc.

 

[strea]

You can get 8320 and 7350 for about the same price as 8030 and 3000 Micro. The GLM kit then goes over budget but it's the same as minidsp and UMIK-1.

But if you can't fit the 7350 then you can't. Genelec subs without using GLM are just not worth it and the 7040 is not even a sub in my opinion, the 3000 Micro is far superior option and you can do some EQ with the SVS app.

Yes I'm liking the idea of the 3000 Micro, it fits better than even the 7040 and I think it's more up my alley (electronic/rap music and I really want 30hz extension). At this point, I think I'm content w/ the Micro idea + 8030's, now just looking towards making sure the connections are correct and what DAC would make sense input sensitivity wise. For example, I know for the RME ADI-2 DAC to work properly, it will require attenuators, I'd prefer a DAC with a volume knob that will mix well with the 8030's (or perhaps I should go audio interface), not sure on this aspect yet. I had some recommendations in a different thread that went a bit off course, Topping EX5 was recommended over there.

 

[bodhi]

Yes I'm liking the idea of the 3000 Micro, it fits better than even the 7040 and I think it's more up my alley (electronic/rap music and I really want 30hz extension). At this point, I think I'm content w/ the Micro idea + 8030's, now just looking towards making sure the connections are correct and what DAC would make sense input sensitivity wise. For example, I know for the RME ADI-2 DAC to work properly, it will require attenuators, I'd prefer a DAC with a volume knob that will mix well with the 8030's (or perhaps I should go audio interface), not sure on this aspect yet.

That DAC costs 1250€? How about Topping DX3 Pro+ for 200€ and put the rest towards the speakers. I'm pretty sure you won't notice any difference.

 

[Sokel]

What is some basic room treatment you would recommend? I have a large 6 layer latex mattress that should eat up some bass (not sure if that's how it works), but I'm open to hearing suggestion. Note that the goal here is listening pleasure, not looking to have a perfect studio etc.

I wish I could guide you to this but only after some basic measurements you can have a picture.
For starters you can use Rew's Room simulation to get a first idea.

 

[strea]

That DAC costs 1250€? How about Topping DX3 Pro+ for 200€ and put the rest towards the speakers. I'm pretty sure you won't notice any difference.

Yes sounds like a good idea. I originally wanted the ADI-2 DAC because it had bass control and planned to go with 7040a. But now with SVS 3000 Micro, I can lower the bass at night with the SVS app!

I am out of desk room with the 8030's. So I suppose 8030 is the largest I can go + SVS 3000 Micro + DX3 Pro and I suppose I'm done? Just need the RCA to XLR cables for input to Genelecs from the SVS Micro 3000.

 

[strea]

Oh wait.. is it possible that I can use say a Topping EX5 and run Balanced XLR out to the Monitors and RCA out to the subwoofer? Separately? That way I don't need to use the RCA to XLR cables for the monitors?

 

[bodhi]

Oh wait.. is it possible that I can use say a Topping EX5 and run Balanced XLR out to the Monitors and RCA out to the subwoofer? Separately? That way I don't need to use the RCA to XLR cables for the monitors?

Yes. If you are fine paying for balanced connection. I might, the EX5 is still cheap.

 

[strea]

Yes. If you are fine paying for balanced connection. I might, the EX5 is still cheap.

Will I have a more difficult time level matching considering the balanced connection is +4db and unbalanced -10db? Although I suppose I just counter this with the SVS app.

And yes, I don't mind paying a tad more to "complete" the setup properly. I don't want to cut corners / I'll gladly spend an extra $200 when already dropping 2-3K etc.

 

[Shadrach]

I bought the 7050cpm to go with my 8030Cs.
Still learning how to get the best from the various tuning options; those genelec offer on the units, what is practical in the way of room alterations, what I should or shouldn't attempt with a software parametric equalizer.
My room volume is around 27 cubic metres and you can see where I listen from in the picture.
I can't fault the units. I can get 20Hz out of the sub should I wish. I can get over 90 db without any software preamp changes at my listening point.
Some time spent with a cheap SPL meter and some test tones is helpful.