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Not to add to your already high work load, but it might be nice to once or twice compare the response with a high pass filter at 60 -100 Hz to see how these perform with a sub!
Well known directivity issue, as many others have commented here!What do you mean well known? Please elaborate, based on what? Not everybody thinks that.Proacs Studio 100 have been a reference for Studio Engineers for decades, not only that, every brands in the world have some sort of variations of this simple desigm… If it’s well known from the start that it will be crap, you don’t think they would have stopped by now? plus, it’s not the first of this kind to get positive impressions on this site. Are you just throwing this blanket statements just to provoke or is there a rationale in your thinking?
The non-X version of the Criton is a bit cheaper.Oof, I can't remember if the price went up or not, but I remember these being a better deal a while ago. Maybe they were $500? Why wouldn't you just get a revel at that point?
You don't need an echo effect to have "reverb", that said the reflected off axis sound is not what defines reverb neither but it's related. Sure we can talk about reverberations FX as a creative tool, but in term of what we are talking here, which is in room response, all rooms have some reverberation, just that some are very short but the only room without reverb would be an anechoic chamber, that's the idea, to kill all reverb, there is not a reverb time treshold that say ok this room is now reverberant because we clearly have an echo when a percussive sound is played back. The sound don't die instantly, it means reverb. For exemple, bathrooms are more reverberant than most living rooms because surfaces are more reflective, the sound keep bouncing for longer, but you'll never hear repeated echo, because the size is very small.
Howdy, I went back to peek in Mr. Toole's book to ensure I use the same terms if possible and hopefully use them correctly... mainly just to clarify something I said earlier. In the end the main point was about smartly applying PEQ and not about getting the terminology hammered out.reverb is not echo.
you know this one?or take any in room recording of speakers.
it's clearly reverb to me.
Echo on the physic values of DIY and connecting ones mind with ones hands as a means to a attractive, useful and lasting object.
@mtmpenn What is your source for
Thanks I've used them too. Agree with you. Always looking for new sources of wood products.www.veneersupplies.com
I’ve purchased from them a number of times. They are great. Plus, customer service is excellent.
Mike
You can simulate the driver is a free program like WinISD.Not to add to your already high work load, but it might be nice to once or twice compare the response with a high pass filter at 60 -100 Hz to see how these perform with a sub!
Agree. And once you factor in finishing the cabinet and the time it takes to complete the project, I think there are better values.
@mtmpenn Your's look great!View attachment 264108Totally biased opinion here (as I own a pair) but I think this is a pretty good deal.
While there are speakers that measure better, this seems to be a very reasonable result (ie better than many speakers we have seen here). Subjectively I very much enjoy my pair.
As to the value, I think that this kit is great.
First, you have to understand that to do DIY correctly takes time, but that time should bring enjoyment. I don’t count the time cost of my hobbies, because they bring me happiness and that has significant value. If you dislike the idea of building a speaker, skip it, use that time to work and then buy something pre-made using the proceeds. If you enjoy working with your hands and need a distraction from work, then maybe you DIY. Second, this kit is exceptionally friendly for the casual DIYer. Excellent instructions, very cool 3d printed crossover board, and a flat pack that is hard to mess up. I’ve built kits from several other sources and I would absolutely recommend this kit (or another from the same company) to a beginner as a great way to get started in the hobby. Third, with DIY you have the opportunity to make something unique and that has value. When I see my speakers I feel pride. They are frequently praised by people who see them (before they know I made them). This would not happen if they were the generic black or white boxes that most manufacturers put out.
Thanks!You can simulate the driver is a free program like WinISD.
Plug in the specs and the box size used here along with the port size. That will give you a very great basic model.
Really though, the CSS/Wavecore woofer used has a generous x-max.
If you don't ask it to play deep bass it should absolutely rip with a 60-100hrz High Pass.
Just use a powerful amp for high SPL with the low sensitivity.
Since it is DIY you also could negate the port and build a smaller sealed box(with the same sized face) to use with a sub(s) or retune the box and port a bit to better pair with certain set-ups.
Folks complaining about the port quality can also buy a Percision Port or make one from HomeDepot PVC, it is DIY afterall. Everything adds costs for the kit so I see why the basic ports are there. It really doesn't matter as long chuffing is minimal. The potential pipe resonaces are another thing to deal with but a flared port doesn't do anything for those.
@mtmpenn Your's look great!
I think you nailed the main reasons to DIY.
DIY is a great value in terms of fullfilment for me.
Costs are hard to assess. Retail vs DIY is not apples to apples.
A person has some free time to play. If that someone went out for a round of golf, lunch and a couple beers or something similar on two weekends vs staying home and making their speakers -well one can see how the value proposition becomes interesting.
Now if you skip a concert or two and maybe a sporting event to build 'em, at some point the speakers are in some ways free.
The CSS seems to respond well to a bit of PEQ for speaker 'correction'. Do you have the ability to try the version @pierre made?
Very interesting way to look at that. Valid in some way but so not me. If I skip leisure time to work for free I certainly don't see this as getting the speakers for free, instead I am paying them twice. In cash for the material, and in time on top of that if the cash part is not significantly reduced. That said I did my own share of DIY and I don't regret one bit. But also in my mind I grossly overpaid these speakers and amps. It is worth it for the learning, for the satisfaction, all that but it is clear in my mind that it's a venture that is not anywhere near making sense financially. In my book I paid my speakers and amps at least twice what they are worth, but again I don't regret it.Costs are hard to assess. Retail vs DIY is not apples to apples.
A person has some free time to play. If that someone went out for a round of golf, lunch and a couple beers or something similar on two weekends vs staying home and making their speakers -well one can see how the value proposition becomes interesting.
Now if you skip a concert or two and maybe a sporting event to build 'em, at some point the speakers are in some ways free.
You have a point there.Nothing realy to care about its not even 5db up at 15 khz and only if they point direct on you. Toe them 5 degree in or out its gone, at least for them that realy can hear it. From my point of view there is maybe a littel more air, depending on room this can be nice. No need for eq.
Well, ultimately personal preference is always in play, plus your room acoustics and listening distance and habits such as content and playback SPL can shape those preferences a bit.I own the 1-TD (non-X) version and it is my favorite speaker I've owned over the past 4 years, which includes the ELAC DBR-62, Polk R200, KEF LS50, JBL Studio 530, Quad S2, Wharfedale Diamond 12.2, among others).
Subjectively, it is one of the least bright sounding speakers I've owned. It does have a different tweeter and crossover parts than this 1-TDX so perhaps that is the reason my experience is different (?).
I also dabbled in DIY for awhile. It always took more time than expected, cost more than budgeted, and the final result was never as perfect as I wanted. Though I’m sure those who are more handy have better luck.Very interesting way to look at that. Valid in some way but so not me. If I skip leisure time to work for free I certainly don't see this as getting the speakers for free, instead I am paying them twice. In cash for the material, and in time on top of that if the cash part is not significantly reduced. That said I did my own share of DIY and I don't regret one bit. But also in my mind I grossly overpaid these speakers and amps. It is worth it for the learning, for the satisfaction, all that but it is clear in my mind that it's a venture that is not anywhere near making sense financially. In my book I paid my speakers and amps at least twice what they are worth, but again I don't regret it.
Room modes will play havoc with such a configuration. It would take optimizing the response with measurements which then creates a specific test case, not a general one.Not to add to your already high work load, but it might be nice to once or twice compare the response with a high pass filter at 60 -100 Hz to see how these perform with a sub!
It is the only way to get true deep bass in reasonably high output levels from a relatively small driver.these were always going to be a hard sell
i think you all know 'boutique' and kit type speakers are gonna have hard time competeing with a Harman company
i would imagine these would compare well with even the stalwarts like the old R162
the bullet in the head is the 82dB sensitivity which would not pose a problem here as we all own mega powered battleship class power amps but i keep saying... is 82dB worth the effort when there are 88dB speakers that do just as well?
Yah, they should be clear about that.I recently swapped messages with a seller on another site who'd bought the kit with the baltic birch flat pack, which he said was a PITA to assemble and didn't turn out very well versus other DIYs he'd assembled, which was quite frustrating to him given the premium for that over MDF.