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Kef R Meta Series Release

Streamc

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That's interesting. How many hours are you listening on them? On an interrupted session
I listen to them several times a week, but not more than an hour. more than hour on weekends. I have other things to do. I have Topping D90Le, Purifi with bypassed buffer. Even some people think chinesse equipment is bright I do not see it.
Personally I consider them as many people "not bright" even DARK speakers despite flat curve.
You are first person to call them bright.
Maybe it is room decoration or some amp helping in "brighntess". I do not know. Even on Youtube via headphones they are dark. Reference series on youtube is not Dark but R is dark.
I like R3.
 

ROOSKIE

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That's interesting. How many hours are you listening on them? On an interrupted session
I listen to them several times a week, but not more than an hour. more than hour on weekends. I have other things to do. I have Topping D90Le, Purifi with bypassed buffer. Even some people think chinesse equipment is bright I do not see it.
Personally I consider them as many people "not bright" even DARK speakers despite flat curve.
You are first person to call them bright.
Maybe it is room decoration or some amp helping in "brighntess". I do not know. Even on Youtube via headphones they are dark. Reference series on youtube is not Dark but R is dark.
I like R3.

While I was not ultimately a huge personal fan of the R3, I never felt they were bright or fatguing speakers at all.
Yes, they sounded extended and not rolled off, but never 'bright' or 'fatguing' unless the recording itself was pretty bad. (I thought both the Q100 & Q150 could sound a bit edgy or bright at times, the LS50meta is not)
The R3 I found not even slightly fatiguing - not even remotely fatiguing. Actully the opposite - missing that bite that some music requires and that 'heart' energy and so sounding a bit to buttoned up or just a bit overy pristine. That said, I realize for many that buttoned up pristine presentation is the cream so in that reguard the OG R3 is doing it.

Certainly with the superb directivety the R3 has on offer you can adjust the tonality to nearly any taste you have so if that is an option for you the speaker can be adjusted very well.

Holy mother of mary jesus lazarus R3 IN BLUE! Take my money no measurements needed!
I know right? As stated already the OG R3 didn't win for me but that blue is sick. I don't know, man - why do my Revel and BMR speakers have to sound just so fricken right to me but look like something old dudes want? Sorry old dudes, and actually I kind of do like those looks but KEF is the 'how it looks design leader'. Oh well. Blue indeed! I have the Blue LS50meta's but actually I kind of dig the R3's version more.
 

Streamc

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While I was not ultimately a huge personal fan of the R3, I never felt they were bright or fatguing speakers at all.
Yes, they sounded extended and not rolled off, but never 'bright' or 'fatguing' unless the recording itself was pretty bad. (I though both the Q100 & Q150 could sound a bit edgy or bright at times, the LS50meta is not)
The R3 I found not even slightly fatiguing - not even remotely fatiguing. Actully the opposite - missing that bite that some music requires and that 'heart' energy and so sounding a bit to buttoned up or just a bit overy pristine. That said I realize for many that buttoned up pristine presentation is the cream so in that reguard the R3 is doing it.

Certainly with the superb directivety the R3 has on offer you can adjust the tonality to nearly any taste you have so if that is an option for you the speaker can be adjusted very well.


I know right? As stated already the OG R3 didn't win for me but that blue is sick. I don't know, man - why do my Revel and BMR speakers have to sound just so frisken right to me but look like something old dudes want? Sorry old dudes, and actually I kind of do like those looks but KEF is the 'how it looks design leader'. Oh well. Blue indeed! I have the Blue LS50meta's but actually I kind of did the R3's version more.
Thanks for repliment. This is to regan. I never found them bright or fatiguing.
 

BrokenEnglishGuy

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While I was not ultimately a huge personal fan of the R3, I never felt they were bright or fatguing speakers at all.
Yes, they sounded extended and not rolled off, but never 'bright' or 'fatguing' unless the recording itself was pretty bad. (I thought both the Q100 & Q150 could sound a bit edgy or bright at times, the LS50meta is not)
The R3 I found not even slightly fatiguing - not even remotely fatiguing. Actully the opposite - missing that bite that some music requires and that 'heart' energy and so sounding a bit to buttoned up or just a bit overy pristine. That said, I realize for many that buttoned up pristine presentation is the cream so in that reguard the OG R3 is doing it.

Certainly with the superb directivety the R3 has on offer you can adjust the tonality to nearly any taste you have so if that is an option for you the speaker can be adjusted very well.


I know right? As stated already the OG R3 didn't win for me but that blue is sick. I don't know, man - why do my Revel and BMR speakers have to sound just so fricken right to me but look like something old dudes want? Sorry old dudes, and actually I kind of do like those looks but KEF is the 'how it looks design leader'. Oh well. Blue indeed! I have the Blue LS50meta's but actually I kind of dig the R3's version more.
A lot of people can find the R series a bit bright in the mid range.. the upper mid range. But they are a little bit dark between 10khz-20khz too.
Personally i lower the 2khz-5khz and raise the 10khz-20khz in my R7s.



The l50m has a less energy in the upper mid-range.
 

MingChops

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The reference floorstanders are huge beasts. If you can get good sound with tiny R5s in your room then maybe you don't need big speakers.

The ref 5s would be great for somebody's third guest living room (120m2). :)
You‘re right, its a typical uk lounge I have so not big (17-18m2), R5’s fill it with ease. I was suggesting though the next move for me is Ref 1 as opposed to Ref 5 - size and pricing of those are unfortunately both utterly prohibitive!!
 

bodhi

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You‘re right, its a typical uk lounge I have so not big (17-18m2), R5’s fill it with ease. I was suggesting though the next move for me is Ref 1 as opposed to Ref 5 - size and pricing of those are unfortunately both utterly prohibitive!!

I really like KEF speakers but also having R5s with KF92s I don't believe I could make myself upgrade to Ref 1. With that kind of money the active offering just seems better.

But then again, for many people the cost is peanuts and going with Ref instead of R series is no brainer.
 

ROOSKIE

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A lot of people can find the R series a bit bright in the mid range.. the upper mid range. But they are a little bit dark between 10khz-20khz too.
Personally i lower the 2khz-5khz and raise the 10khz-20khz in my R7s.



The l50m has a less energy in the upper mid-range.
Sure, people are going to have different tastes and they also have different levels of expereinces with other speakers.
They may also be trying to get a little to much out of the charts posted here and elsewhere.

Whatever I definiety am onboard with trying various PEQ to get what one wants.

My opinion is not difinitive by any means and I realize others will take something else away when using them, after testing about 40 speakers sets in the last 3 years the R3 was not bright to me in my space. That said while I like a variety of presentations I do tend to prefer a speaker with a large and 'vivid' or 'vibrant' or 'real' sound that can sound rich when it needs to but allows for that attack and edge that some music just requires IMHO. The R3 while good was not really those things always sounding great but staying ever so slightly tame. I always say they sounded like great speakers, while my favorites sound more like great live sound.
Of course, who knows - love to redo many speaker I have tried blind to their identity... maybe next time.

In any case my in room measurements are more even that the 'predicted' set that ASR posts. In my space when the room energy reaches equilibrium I did not have much of the bump above 3k and I did have some bit of dip from 1-2.5k. Of course Amir could draw the line differently. In any case that doesn't really tell the whole story, but it is interesting.
 

nawfal07

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no; I'm saying there are only R6 and R2, both of them with MAT

Are you sure? What are your sources? They clearly name it “R6C” without the word “Meta”. Having the letter “C” itself doesn’t match R2 Meta name. If R6C has metamaterial why the different naming convention?

177BE99A-B370-4A75-8FDB-DBDB2ACE0509.jpeg


I’ll just wait for the official announcement from KEF.
 

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regan

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Certainly with the superb directivety the R3 has on offer you can adjust the tonality to nearly any taste you have so if that is an option for you the speaker can be adjusted very well.
You mean I could make the R3 sound like let's say wharfedale linton (which they say is more warm than r3) with eq?
 

dogmamann

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Reference are also deeper I believe not just taller. I believe the drivers should be able to support more output too without as much distortion - higher xmax, more linear I assume and no doubt a teenier better crossover, cabinet construction etc. But yeah if you have space for the R11 is there much advantage to the Ref One? I wonder if they'll also support selling an individual R3 for center duty as well. I'd love to see an active R3 or R7 as well.
don’t compare references with r, reference 1 is better than r11 with mids and highs. At low volume, their bass has better decay from what I have listened. It’s altogether a higher quality. R11 to me is a loud beast more suited for large sound wall than at most fidelity
 
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Kachda

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You mean I could make the R3 sound like let's say wharfedale linton (which they say is more warm than r3) with eq?
But you can't change directivity! So in room, they will sound different even with Eq.
 

ROOSKIE

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You mean I could make the R3 sound like let's say wharfedale linton (which they say is more warm than r3) with eq?
No not excatly.
I am not saying you can make them sound like any speaker.
You can however adjust the tonality of the R3. So yes you can make them sound warmer or brighter or any myriad of tonal adjustments.
Because the speaker has good, even directivity(low acoustical interferences) the adjustments will affect the on and off axis responces proportionately which is a nice trait of the speaker (though not required for EQ to change the sound).
With this speaker if there is to much or to little energy in pretty much any area in your space or based on preferences, turn that area down or up as you see fit.


While you may get close to the overall toneality of the Linton speaker they will not exactly emulate the Lintons for many reasons. I have used the Lintons and still have them here as I have yet to find time to fix/look into an issue with mine. Based soley on memory and using a set of Lintons that may not have been at 100% I think if you are cross shopping Lintons and KEF you better try both in room.
They are very different though again with the R3 you have great latitude to adjust the tonality and with the Lintons much less latitude for adjustment before you risk creating issues larger than what you are trying to solve.

The R3 would also need assistance in the bass region earlier than the Linton if you plan to do bass heavy stuff, farfield at SPL. The R3 will be best crossed(high passed) over to subs at around 80-90hrz while the Lintons could be used well down to 50hrz or so (all ultimately based of course on room size and listening levels)
 

Daka

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No not excatly.
I am not saying you can make them sound like any speaker.
You can however adjust the tonality of the R3. So yes you can make them sound warmer or brighter or any myriad of tonal adjustments.
Because the speaker has good, even directivity(low acoustical interferences) the adjustments will affect the on and off axis responces proportionately which is a nice trait of the speaker (though not required for EQ to change the sound).
With this speaker if there is to much or to little energy in pretty much any area in your space or based on preferences, turn that area down or up as you see fit.


While you may get close to the overall toneality of the Linton speaker they will not exactly emulate the Lintons for many reasons. I have used the Lintons and still have them here as I have yet to find time to fix/look into an issue with mine. Based soley on memory and using a set of Lintons that may not have been at 100% I think if you are cross shopping Lintons and KEF you better try both in room.
They are very different though again with the R3 you have great latitude to adjust the tonality and with the Lintons much less latitude for adjustment before you risk creating issues larger than what you are trying to solve.

The R3 would also need assistance in the bass region earlier than the Linton if you plan to do bass heavy stuff, farfield at SPL. The R3 will be best crossed(high passed) over to subs at around 80-90hrz while the Lintons could be used well down to 50hrz or so (all ultimately based of course on room size and listening levels)
Dunno but R3 extend down quite a bit into 40Hz typically - I had them crossed at 50-60Hz easy
 

ROOSKIE

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Dunno but R3 extend down quite a bit into 40Hz typically - I had them crossed at 50-60Hz easy
Like I said it will depend on your room size, SPL levels and of course the amount of bass in your media.

The R3 uses 2 6.5" woofers in a pair. That is a bit less than 1 single 8" subwoofer is terms of SD and I guarantee you the XMAX of the R3 woofers is no where near what even a modest 8" sub would have.

So if I have a solid ported 8" sub with say 10mm Xmax and the R3 pair with 2, 6.5" drivers with say 5mm Xmax the 8" sub already can move twice as much air cleanly. 1 single 8".
This is just physics. You decide. IME there are almost no 6.5" driver based system that work well at 50hrz at higher SPL and certainly not as good as any decent sub or multiple subs.

Yah, if you have them in nearfield, a small room or play at modest SPL and or just don't do much bass conetnt they will be fine @50hrz or even full range.
Personally I only use monitors full range for testing, I always prefer them with subs for enjoyment listening and generally find they work best at a crossover point a bit higher than some folks would imagine.
Especially as the R3's can handle incredible SPL above 80-90hrz, but that same SPL down low will blow them out.
If you still have them try crossoing your R3's higher and spend some time getting a good blend and then switch back and forth. Tell me what you think/find.

Anecdotaly, IME you can't just look at the charts. In my room when using pink noise @83db avg SPL and setting PEQ the R3 appears to excite bass just as much as the JBL L82 did(each L82 uses a 8" woofer/not subwoofer). In reality when playing music back and doing so fairly loudly the L82 spank the R3's in bass output and bass extension from about 60-80hrz down. Like not even close. In the end do what you need to.
 
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BrokenEnglishGuy

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Like I said it will depend on your room size, SPL levels and of course the amount of bass in your media.

The R3 uses 2 6.5" woofers in a pair. That is a bit less than 1 single 8" subwoofer is terms of SD and I guarantee you the XMAX of the R3 woofers is no where near what even a modest 8" sub would have.

So if I have a solid ported 8" sub with say 10mm Xmax and the R3 pair with 2, 6.5" drivers with say 5mm Xmax the 8" sub already can move twice as much air cleanly. 1 single 8".
This is just physics. You decide. IME there are almost no 6.5" driver based system that work well at 50hrz at higher SPL and certainly not as good as any decent sub or multiple subs.

Yah, if you have them in nearfield, a small room or play at modest SPL and or just don't do much bass conetnt they will be fine @50hrz or even full range.
Personally I only use monitors full range for testing, I always prefer them with subs for enjoyment listening and generally find they work best at a crossover point a bit higher than some folks would imagine.
Especially as the R3's can handle incredible SPL above 80-90hrz, but that same SPL down low will blow them out.
If you still have them try crossoing your R3's higher and spend some time getting a good blend and then switch back and forth. Tell me what you think/find.

Anecdotaly, IME you just can't look at the charts. In my room when using pink noise and setting PEQ the R3 appears to excite bass just as much as the JBL L82 did(each uses a 8" woofer/not subwoofer). In reality when playing music back and doing so fairly loudly the L82 spank the R3's in bass output and bass extension from about 60-80hrz down. Like not even close. In the end do what you need to.
the bass area of that 8'' from the linton's is more match for the dual 6.5'' from the R7
 

Vacceo

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With Dirac ART on the horizon, I wonder how well these new speakers will work. My guess is quite well, due to how controlled the directivity is in the current ones (and the meta version will probably improve a bit on that) but also due to the relatively nice capacity to generate bass.
 

Daka

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Like I said it will depend on your room size, SPL levels and of course the amount of bass in your media.

The R3 uses 2 6.5" woofers in a pair. That is a bit less than 1 single 8" subwoofer is terms of SD and I guarantee you the XMAX of the R3 woofers is no where near what even a modest 8" sub would have.

So if I have a solid ported 8" sub with say 10mm Xmax and the R3 pair with 2, 6.5" drivers with say 5mm Xmax the 8" sub already can move twice as much air cleanly. 1 single 8".
This is just physics. You decide. IME there are almost no 6.5" driver based system that work well at 50hrz at higher SPL and certainly not as good as any decent sub or multiple subs.

Yah, if you have them in nearfield, a small room or play at modest SPL and or just don't do much bass conetnt they will be fine @50hrz or even full range.
Personally I only use monitors full range for testing, I always prefer them with subs for enjoyment listening and generally find they work best at a crossover point a bit higher than some folks would imagine.
Especially as the R3's can handle incredible SPL above 80-90hrz, but that same SPL down low will blow them out.
If you still have them try crossoing your R3's higher and spend some time getting a good blend and then switch back and forth. Tell me what you think/find.

Anecdotaly, IME you can't just look at the charts. In my room when using pink noise @83db avg SPL and setting PEQ the R3 appears to excite bass just as much as the JBL L82 did(each L82 uses a 8" woofer/not subwoofer). In reality when playing music back and doing so fairly loudly the L82 spank the R3's in bass output and bass extension from about 60-80hrz down. Like not even close. In the end do what you need to.
All that goes without saying. I was referring to typical listening distance, and they can handle typical listening SPL - 80-85db perfectly crossed at 50-60Hz. People with bigger rooms and further LP don’t get R3s - but R7,R11.
Totally agree bigger woofers will have lower distortion at high SPL, will extend lower also. But my point isn’t to say they KEFs are better just that they are very capable, at lower crossover also, typically.
 

Daka

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With Dirac ART on the horizon, I wonder how well these new speakers will work. My guess is quite well, due to how controlled the directivity is in the current ones (and the meta version will probably improve a bit on that) but also due to the relatively nice capacity to generate bass.
Seen a review on YouTube with Dirac rep and he mentioned few things:
- it will be limited to 150Hz for starter - it’s planned to go higher in the future
- he mentioned subwoofers as being most capable to perform this task provided you have few - this was most surprising and not surprising at the same time - it wasn't mentioned by anyone else but makes perfect sense as subs are capable to go flat through 150Hz (typically)
- StormAudio has exclusivity till Autumn
- rollout on other processors will depend on their manufacturers, apparently ART will require 20% extra processing power, which I recon shouldn’t be problem typically, but manufacturers, majority of which struggle in software department, to implement this… for free…
Btw Macintosh released new Dirac AV processor 7.2.4 - wonder if Amir will get hands on it.

Not to deviate from this too much - any guesses when KEF will update their page? Anyone knows how it was in 2014 or 2017 when they presented gear at ISE?
 
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Steve Dallas

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That's interesting. How many hours are you listening on them? On an interrupted session
I don't find them bright either. I find them to be very balanced. The measure a little hot starting at 10KHz, but my hearing is diminished above 14.5KHz, so I don't mind it. And spectral analysis has taught me there is not much content up there anyway in the vast majority of the music I enjoy.

KEF R3 Left Dirac to 1000Hz.png



KEF R3 Right Dirac to 1000Hz.png
 

ROOSKIE

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the bass area of that 8'' from the linton's is more match for the dual 6.5'' from the R7
It would be indeed.
I have Tekton Impact Monitors (dual 6.5's per speaker)and they have about the same bass output as the Lintons. (to my ear the Tektons are a touch more articulate though and Lintons warmer)

So the above said I have several, inexpensive Dayton Audio 8" DIY 'not quite' subs that I use for various testing. Those are budget 8's https://www.parts-express.com/Dayton-Audio-DCS205-4-8-Classic-Subwoofer-4-Ohm-295-200?quantity=1

Just 2 of these each in .9cuft ported boxes tuned to 35hrz have better and more available bass than either the Tektons or the Lintons, they also beat the afformentioned JBL L82's but not by much and I did prefer the absolute bass quality of the L82's so I would reccomend those be paired with substantial subs to make good gains(I used dual high output 15's crossed to the L82's at 50hrz)

There is no replacement for dispacement - and it is even better if it is a larger driver so sensitivity can be high. You can make a 6.5" woofer with huge xmax and therefore higher output potential but then you give up loads of sensitivity as the cone has to be very ridgid(thick and weighty) to handle 13mm of xmax. In an active that works but not in a passive where the lowest sensitivity driver sets the baseline.

The R3's woofer cone is quite thin and flexible even. I think to keep sensitivty resonable in the design. That R3 woofer is not a highoutput low bass driver.

All that goes without saying. I was referring to typical listening distance, and they can handle typical listening SPL - 80-85db perfectly crossed at 50-60Hz. People with bigger rooms and further LP don’t get R3s - but R7,R11.
Totally agree bigger woofers will have lower distortion at high SPL, will extend lower also. But my point isn’t to say they KEFs are better just that they are very capable, at lower crossover also, typically.
I hear yah. I do think the R3's are superb speakers. (if not excatly for me)
That said just to beat this drum one more post, I honestly think it is currently wishfull thinking in audiophiledome to have a pair of small woofer monitors that have size bellying bass (for farfield use in not small rooms). Decent, deep and extension bass sure -even very satisfying bass, but top tier 40-80hrz bass from a pair 6's. I have not found that pair yet. Probabily a marketing illusion with the possible exceptions of the Purifi and the Epique 6.5's - those DIY units might be close in the right hands.

My BMR monitors have just wonderful 40-80hrz bass at modest to mid loud SPL for example but paired with subs it is just better. Plus when some really heavy shhyt hits the subs will play music and not something else ---- and no port noise. (I ended up with 70hrz for the BMR HP with subs and they need a 32-35hrz/36dbo HP if running full range as ultra low bass hurts that 6.)

I mean if someone spends some real money on excellent speakers and great subs. Why try to work the R3's harder? There is no benefit of any kind. They can play reasonable sounds at 50hrz but honestly the sub will do much better there. There is no question unless the sub is of low quality. Sure untill you get a sub or if subs are not an option then go with letting the R3's handle the depths. Once the sub(s) are in play what is the point? Almost no 6.5" driver can fill a medium room with 50hrz bass that is clean, clear and dynamic and is also not producing IMD and compressing. I really think at 80-85db average SPL with peaking into the 90's the R3's need subs and 80hrz crossover unless the room is small. (in the high 80's avg SPl they def do) If you get time try setting up some similar sized monitors with subs and play around.

Well anyway, I am sorry for the tangent. Be cool to see what the full Rmeta story is.
 
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