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Topping E70 Stereo DAC Review

Rate this DAC:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 8 2.1%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 8 2.1%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 45 11.9%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 317 83.9%

  • Total voters
    378

MX5

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I recently upgraded my desktop audio setup. I'm listening to a pair of 2020 Sundaras with an L70 (balanced output). I bought both an E50 and E70 (Sabre) to compare. Having reviewed the specs, I was convinced that they would sound identical and I would keep the (much cheaper) E50. Utilizing the services of my amazingly patient and helpful wife, I conducted a "blind" test. We put them both under an opaque pillowcase (light and breathable). She flipped a coin, hooked one of them into the L70 and then I listened to it for a few hours. She then switched it to the other. I listed to both Hi-Res files on my computer and Amazon music unlimited Hi-Res tracks. I was very suprised at the results.

The first DAC I listened to was amazing. The separation, texture, crash, timbre, presence and other...music things...were magical (hey, I'm not a music writer, sorry). Not sure how to describe it but to me, it was both the most realistic music I've ever heard and simultaneously an expression of what I'd consider the platonic ideal of what music should sound like. I thought to myself, "I hope that's the E50, because if it is, I just saved $150." When she switched to the other DAC, everything changed. It sounded....fine. With the same source material and songs.

Huh. Not what I expected at all. Given both the models' specs and test results here, I thought they would sound identical. I listened for an hour. Fine. I asked my wife to change it back. Magic. Okay. Hmmm.

I had her unhook everything without telling me which was which. I checked all the settings again to make sure they were the same (e.g. not using one filter setting on one and a different filter on the other or whatever). They're same as I can figure. Okay, she flipped another coin and we did it again. Same results.

She "unblinded" me. The E70 was, to my ears, amazing. The E50 fine. I have no idea why. The only thing I couldn't have be the "same" is the cables, as the E50 uses TRS out (so I used a TRS to XLR cable) and the E70 uses XLR (so XLR to XLR). I suppose that could be the difference. Or I could have gotten a dud E50. No idea. And the exact opposite of what I expected. At this point, I'm done investigating. I'm returning the E50 and delighting in my new setup. I wanted to share my experience in case it's helpful to anyone. Your mileage may vary.

Hmmmm....I wonder how this would sound with the HE-6SE.....going to try that next.
 

Veri

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She "unblinded" me. The E70 was, to my ears, amazing. The E50 fine. I have no idea why. The only thing I couldn't have be the "same" is the cables, as the E50 uses TRS out (so I used a TRS to XLR cable) and the E70 uses XLR (so XLR to XLR). I suppose that could be the difference. Or I could have gotten a dud E50. No idea. And the exact opposite of what I expected. At this point, I'm done investigating. I'm returning the E50 and delighting in my new setup. I wanted to share my experience in case it's helpful to anyone. Your mileage may vary.
;)

This is the normal E70 right, not the 'velvet' AKM one?

Did that. Any other suggestions?
How did you do the volume matching exactly? It's not that easy to do properly. (just wondering!)
 

MX5

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Yes, could definitely be the cables. Unfortunately, I can't think of a way to definitively test that since they have different outputs on the back. I suppose I could buy two adapters, one xlr to TRS and the other TRS to XLR and use them in opposite order on the two dacs, with the same cables. But that's more trouble than I'm willing to go through to satisfy my idle curiosity. The E70 sounds amazing on my desk to my ears. I'm going to roll with it. Super grateful for this site. Definitely pointed me in the right direction.
 

BR52

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Yes, could definitely be the cables. Unfortunately, I can't think of a way to definitively test that since they have different outputs on the back. I suppose I could buy two adapters, one xlr to TRS and the other TRS to XLR and use them in opposite order on the two dacs, with the same cables. But that's more trouble than I'm willing to go through to satisfy my idle curiosity. The E70 sounds amazing on my desk to my ears. I'm going to roll with it. Super grateful for this site. Definitely pointed me in the right direction.
cables? please learn here in the forum more about it. You can learn a lot.
The E70 has an out put impedance of 50/100 Ohms so forget cable capacity.
 

MX5

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Sorry, all I meant was that the cables are not identical. I don't know what attributes of cables affect the final product. If I'm missing something, I apologize. Definitely not an expert here.
 

BR52

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Sorry, all I meant was that the cables are not identical. I don't know what attributes of cables affect the final product. If I'm missing something, I apologize. Definitely not an expert here.
learn and read the cabel threads
 

antcollinet

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Sorry, all I meant was that the cables are not identical. I don't know what attributes of cables affect the final product. If I'm missing something, I apologize. Definitely not an expert here.
Far more likely you had a level difference between the two dacs.
 

Martini

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Killingbeans

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Did that.

By ear?

Any other suggestions?

What reconstuction filters was selected? (Bit of a longshot. None of the filters have massive treble roll off, but some of them have a tad)

EDIT: Nevermind. Didn't see:
I checked all the settings again to make sure they were the same (e.g. not using one filter setting on one and a different filter on the other or whatever). They're same as I can figure.

Then all I got is the risk of error from level matching by ear. And defective cables, as you mentioned yourself.
 
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Vasile 76

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Long time lurker, here. Recently registered when I pulled the trigger (no pun intended) on a new E70 based on feature set (and of course the review/measured performance). It's my first "ChiFi" purchase so I'm reasonably skeptical about the long term value proposition in terms of reliability. But at this price point, I'm OK with it potentially ending up a disposable just to get this feature set - you'd be hard pressed to find another well-implemented ESS Pro converter with "professional" features like balanced XLR outs and a 12v trigger i/o at this price. Bought it direct from Apos (digression for whoever named that company -- when I first saw the name my childish brain immediately joked that maybe it was an acronym for "another piece of s...") and hoping for satisfaction.

My plan is to set the unit to DAC-mode and connect via XLR to a Parasound HINT6 (driving Dynaudio Contour 30 and feeding a Sub 6). I assume that the E70's default 4V output will be sufficient for the HINT6, because my Cambridge DACMagic200M is spec'd at 4.2V on the XLR outs and sounds terrific feeding the HINT6 (to me). (If you're curious why I'm pulling the DACMagic, it's bc my primary desktop headphone amp/dac and I only pulled it into temporary service on my 2.1 rig because the results sounded so much better than the HINT6's internal DAC. But I want my headphone amp back on my desk and I'm not ready to do the upgrade that I think I really want, which is an all in one network streamer preamp like the Mytek Brooklyn).

Question for the Group: any thoughts on whether I should (or why I would want to) try switching the E70 output to 5V? Main reason I'm asking is that a lot of my source material is uncompressed and often a lower average RMS (but higher DR) than commercially released music, so I suspect the voltage boost might help me make the most of my DR without audibly affecting noise or distortion. The HINT6 manual (PDF Link) provides these specs:
View attachment 248368

Would appreciate any comments. TIA, I appreciate it.
I can't decide between Cambridge magic 200m and Topping E70. (Marantz pm 6006+ Dali Oberon 3). What do you recommend? Thanks.
 

ErkyPerky

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Just received my E70 and getting pnl and dfu error when i first turned it on. What does this mean? firmware update? this is my first dac unit and appreciate if someone can point me in the right direction on what to do next.

Update: Just contacted topping and the unit is defective and i'm waiting to hear from shenzhenaudio for a replacement. Just my luck lol.
 
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chillwig

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I can't decide between Cambridge magic 200m and Topping E70. (Marantz pm 6006+ Dali Oberon 3). What do you recommend? Thanks.

They sound very same to me. The Cambridge has MQA and a very good headphone amplifer, which for some people might justify the price difference.. If those features are not important to you, then I would recommend the E70:

1. Sound = TIE
2. Display = Advantage Topping
3. Input Flexibility = Cambridge (2 optical and 2 coax)
4. Digital Volume Control = Cambridge (feels better)
5. Power Supply = Topping (built-in)
6. Remote Control = Topping (it sucks, but at least you have one)
7. Build Quality = Cambridge (more metal/heft; reputation for HQ products)
8. Software = Topping (updateable firmware and menu driven features)
9. Bluetooth - Topping (LDAC capable)
10. Additional Features I Find Very Useful

a. Topping
- 12v trigger!
- auto-on
- higher voltage output option
- channel balance adustment
- more filter options

b. Cambridge
- filter and source buttons on front

Conclusion: if you take MQA and the headphone amplifier out of the equation, the Topping is a better value. Although they likely sound identical, the Topping has a much better feature set at a lower price, but Cambridge's reputation for reliability might be important to many people.
 

misterdog

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the output stage sees or how it reacts to differences in capacitance through slight differences in implementation could make a discernable difference.

Makes a huge difference with TT cartridges.

Resistance more so, I can change the R on mine and hear all the high frequency noise (clicks and surface noise) to appeal to those who think vinyl should have such :oops:.

Or lower it by 10 Ohm and remove it all :).
 
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