HEDD Type 20 MK2 Monitor Review

[Mart68]

After reading the review, I was one of the "poor" ratings. For the price it is very limited in volume. Just too much money for what you get. But then I'm a tightwad.......

so am I but I tend to vote just on the engineering. Maybe down the line you can get them at a big discount or buy them second hand.

price isn't a fixed point but the engineering is.

 

[Waxx]

very nice for low power nearfield listening, but i would expect to go louder than these can do clean. So not top level for me because of the choice of compromise (small but low power). It's still well done in that choice altough.

But as here in Europe for that price i can get a KH310A. And that would be a better choice because of the bigger volume it can do clean. Both cost arround 2K for a single one or 4K for a set down here.

 

[Rahan]

Ther is something that bother me about the SPL capability.

On HEDD website they claim : 120 dB SPL (sound pressure level) per pair at 1m for the type 20mk2
Wich is 117 dB peak per speaker.

* The Neumann Kh310 can produce 116.3dB peak each.
* Dynaudio core 47 only 112dB peak
* JBL 708p 114 dB peak. (hight pass filter on : 80Hz)

Amir said that the Kh310 can handle a lot more power than the HEDD.
He also said that the core 47 can play really loud. Here he talk about limitations.

Are HEDD lying ? Am I missing something?

 

[Digby]

I'm not trying to be funny, but many are taking Amir's word that these distort from his subjective impressions. I'm not doubting his impressions, but are we all subjectivists now?

If the distortion tests don't seem to show which speakers sound distorted on playback, though look fine on measurements vs those that look iffy on the chart, but sound fine on playback, what are we supposed to be looking for/getting from distortion measurements?

I'd love some guidance on this, as it seems to be considered the 2nd most important measurement on this site for speakers (FR, then distortion, then directivity).

 

[Sancus]

Ther is something that bother me about the SPL capability.

On HEDD website they claim : 120 dB SPL (sound pressure level) per pair at 1m for the type 20mk2
Wich is 117 dB peak per speaker.
[...]
Are HEDD lying ? Am I missing something?

Two speakers are +6dB, so it's 114. And likely not lying, simply omitting information, which is more common than not.

Many test details are missing. Signal(frequency?), conditions(half space? quarter space?), duration, distortion are all absent.

Neumann typically gives you many more details: "Max. SPL in full space at 3% THD at 1m (averaged between 100 Hz and 6 kHz)" for example.

Considering the max SPL charts for the KH150 vs the Hedd Type 30(which, as far as I can tell, is the Type 20 with an extra woofer), the performance is not great, and it's not just the woofer, the midrange is weak too.

KH150 vs Type 30

Spoiler

 

[Waxx]

Just look at the graphs from Amir, at 96dB the speaker already has 2% distortion up hig at 3.5kHz. So 120dB will be very distorted:

 

[KoreaBoy]

With this measurement, Amir was added to the recommendation list,

I don't agree.

I bought type 07mk2, type 20mk2, and BASS08 and used it.

The quality of the Hedd is the worst, the defect rate is the highest, and many of the owners who have experienced the problem have been
It's on sale in the secondhand market.

If you haven't sent the speaker back yet, please check the assembly part.
The bolt may not be fastened properly, or it may be spinning.
The type 20 mk2 model is a noisy product.
Only people who can withstand noise can use it.
All 07/20 are closed and distortion occurs before reaching near the maximum volume.
Clipping is very easy to see.

It's a trashy product in the monitor speaker market.
If you thought the product was good only by measurement, it is a very wrong choice.

The DSP knob connects the subwoofer and creates a quivering noise when the volume is large.
Users who have experienced continuous defects can be stressed over months of a/s.
07 MK2 a/s 4 times,
20 MK2 a/s 3 times, experienced a/s.
In Korea, many HEDD users suffer from defects and are selling them secondhand.

20 MK2/30 MK2 products have the highest noise level ever.
05 MK2 / 07 MK2 The same was true for the early models.
Without notice, the company revised DSP to reduce his noise.
The tendency of sound has also changed, and the output of high-pitched sounds has decreased.

HEDD sells DSP modified versions without notice.
The company has given up users suffering from massive noise.
Poor assembly is also the highest ever.
DSP breaks down easily, and if you buy a speaker like this,
You will feel what pain is properly.

I call HEDD speakers trash.

 

[Rahan]

Two speakers are +6dB, so it's 114. And likely not lying, simply omitting information, which is more common than not.

Many test details are missing. Signal(frequency?), conditions(half space? quarter space?), duration, distortion are all absent.

Neumann typically gives you many more details: "Max. SPL in full space at 3% THD at 1m (averaged between 100 Hz and 6 kHz)" for example.

Considering the max SPL charts for the KH150 vs the Hedd Type 30(which, as far as I can tell, is the Type 20 with an extra woofer), the performance is not great, and it's not just the woofer, the midrange is weak too.

KH150 vs Type 30

Spoiler

+ 6 Db in theory with the same signal and zero phase issue. I don't think it happens in the real world. Let's say between +3 and +6 it will be more realistic. I'm disappointed to see that even in the pro world they are playing with numbers to fool people. Thanks for your graph. It's weird that the 2 ways behaves better than the 3 ways in the mid range.

 

[ozonepaul]

With this measurement, Amir was added to the recommendation list,

I don't agree.

I bought type 07mk2, type 20mk2, and BASS08 and used it.

The quality of the Hedd is the worst, the defect rate is the highest, and many of the owners who have experienced the problem have been
It's on sale in the secondhand market.

If you haven't sent the speaker back yet, please check the assembly part.
The bolt may not be fastened properly, or it may be spinning.
The type 20 mk2 model is a noisy product.
Only people who can withstand noise can use it.
All 07/20 are closed and distortion occurs before reaching near the maximum volume.
Clipping is very easy to see.

It's a trashy product in the monitor speaker market.
If you thought the product was good only by measurement, it is a very wrong choice.

The DSP knob connects the subwoofer and creates a quivering noise when the volume is large.
Users who have experienced continuous defects can be stressed over months of a/s.
07 MK2 a/s 4 times,
20 MK2 a/s 3 times, experienced a/s.
In Korea, many HEDD users suffer from defects and are selling them secondhand.

20 MK2/30 MK2 products have the highest noise level ever.
05 MK2 / 07 MK2 The same was true for the early models.
Without notice, the company revised DSP to reduce his noise.
The tendency of sound has also changed, and the output of high-pitched sounds has decreased.

HEDD sells DSP modified versions without notice.
The company has given up users suffering from massive noise.
Poor assembly is also the highest ever.
DSP breaks down easily, and if you buy a speaker like this,
You will feel what pain is properly.

I call HEDD speakers trash.

Without questioning your bad experience, I have to say my experience is very different than yours. I consider HEDD products to be excellent (I've tested the first generation Type 07s, the Type 20s and also their HEEDphone). You said that the "20 MK2/30 MK2 products have the highest noise level ever". Very strange, Amir did not mention anything like this and the mkI model I've heard was not noisier than my KH310.

You said "The quality of the Hedd is the worst, the defect rate is the highest, and many of the owners who have experienced the problem have been
It's on sale in the secondhand market." That's definitively not the case in Europe. For a good year I was searching on ebay for a used Type 30 or Type 20 for my 2nd studio room and there wasn't any on the used market. In fact I just checked: there is not a single used type 20/type 30 on ebay, neither on reverb, (just a Type 07 on reverb).

+ If I look at forums eg. on gearspace about HEDD products, the feedback of mix engineers/hobbyists is pretty positive.
Eg. here you can find more than 200 posts about these Type 20s and Type 30s, again mostly very positive:
https://gearspace.com/board/high-end/1244159-almost-zero-talk-about-hedd-type-30-20-a.html

 

[Waxx]

+ If I look at forums eg. on gearspace about HEDD products, the feedback of mix engineers/hobbyists is pretty positive.
Eg. here you can find more than 200 posts about these Type 20s and Type 30s, again mostly very positive:
https://gearspace.com/board/high-end/1244159-almost-zero-talk-about-hedd-type-30-20-a.html

Gearspace is not the most neutral site for reviews, a lot of snake oil thoughts are also there, especially on monitors. But the fact that there are no complaints on reliability tells that the build quality is more than decent and support from the company aquedate. But some of the people there are also fans of the NS10 and the Altec 612 as monitor, and some even claim those are the most neutral speakers you can have for a studio... (they serve other functions, not neutrality or transparant monitoring).

I was on it for a long time, but i quit posting as i was tired of the endless flame wars between people who like it more scientific (even coloured gear) like me, and the ones that live on snake oil claims and hypes over there. And as i quit the audio engineering bussiness largely i have no need to go back...

 

[PeteL]

If the distortion tests don't seem to show which speakers sound distorted on playback,

At 96 dB SPL 1m they do show.

 

[Ogremic]

I call HEDD speakers trash.

I can't agree. I have been using a pair of Hedd Type07 mk1 since start of 2019 and it sounds damn fine. It translates well, nothing shakes, nothing rattles. I am very sensitive to noises, can't stand speakers that hiss at nearfield distance. Of course, if you put your ear close, it has a hiss (just did a test, at 30cm it's audible), but at ~1m ear distance where I keep them, I can't hear them. I am really pleased of how they sound, it has usable bass until 38Hz. The only think I don't like about the mk1 is the painting which is a matt type, it is really hard to clean, but I understand they changed that in mk2.

And also, something is definitely surprising here, cause my pair sounds really loud in a 22 m2 room. I've had them compared with a friend's Adam S2V and they are on par, Adam go a bit lower in freq and a bit louder, but also they were much more expensive. Another friend of a friend also bought a pair of Type20's and I auditioned them briefly in his room, and it was loud! And I remember being impressed by the clarity and detail even at highest volume (can't remember exactly as this was in 2019)

Edit: - of course, I don't listen to 96db, my pair of Hedd type07 lives it's life mostly at 75-85db, with rare but short moments of "full tilt" to check how it sounds

 

[musicforcities]

I suppose the horizontal / driver layout works well when Seated at a mixing desk; easy to get the tweeter at ear level with the other drivers not too close to the desk/board and this avoiding early reflections.

I wonder two things:
1- would such an arrangement be good for center channel in ht? At least better than the typical horizontal driver arrangement that seems to cause lots of comb filtering and such in previous tests.

2) would coaxial configurations, a la KEF, not be ideal for studio monitors or does near field mean the issues arising from coax arrangement at difficult to mitigate (that KEF seems to successfully mitigate to so e degree with their “tangerine “ tweeter wave guides, dimpled woofer surrounds etc).

 

[Eetu]

1- would such an arrangement be good for center channel in ht? At least better than the typical horizontal driver arrangement that seems to cause lots of comb filtering and such in previous tests.

For sure. There's been a couple threads on the topic. 2-way center speakers are basically doomed to fail. 3-way centers with tweeter and mid placed vertically are a much better design (see Ascend Acoustics Sierra Horizon and Revel C426Be).

Or coaxials a la KEF. Or just buy a 3rd 'front' speaker..

 

[uwotm8]

First, it's a 6.5" woofer going down

First, it's a 7" (according to manufacturer web site) tuned with a 50 Hz bump designed to make it look capable.
While typical decent 6.5" looks like that - and that's 2-way:

They are not design to place 12 feet away. Generally so to other studio monitors

Second, HEDD describes it as a "near- and midfield monitor". Not me. They.

Third and the cringest part: HEDD Type 20 mk2 gets distorted in midrange and HF. That's why blaming its undersized woofer looks so funny.

And yes, I personally listen at low to mid volume and for me personally that speaker might be just perfect, I barely reach that levels where it distorts. But that's me. Others do play music loud and typical healthy and wealthy 8-4-1 3-way lets them to.

P.S. 6.5" strikes back

(But I'm sure that HEDD sound way more pleasing, airy and musical - no sarcasm and no jokes)

 

[3125b]

my KRK’s just sounded thick n’ flabby

They do compared to pretty much any other speaker, I was quite shocked just how much worse they sounded when I heard them alongside other budget monitors.

near- and midfield monitor".

That‘s dishonest indeed, they do not play loud. Neither of the drivers can do that well.
The diagrams from S&R are very helpful in that regrad.

The even bigger Type 30 with two woofers:

The 4" midrage manages about 98dB which is pretty poor, the AMT also falls behind (not only in output, there are also resonances or something visible in the distortion figures) even the cheap Adam T7V (190€ vs. 2900€ each) :

 

[Ogremic]

While typical decent 6.5" looks like that - and that's 2-way:

Come on, that's not decent, thats best of the best. Neumann hit that one out of the park. It's actuallly hard to reccomand any speaker over KH 150 price over that, if you base strictly scientifically, even 3-way designs, in nearfild range

2) would coaxial configurations, a la KEF, not be ideal for studio monitors or does near field mean the issues arising from coax arrangement at difficult to mitigate (that KEF seems to successfully mitigate to so e degree with their “tangerine “ tweeter wave guides, dimpled woofer surrounds etc).

In principle, coaxial would be very desirable but in 3-way designs, not 2-way. In 2 way the woofer would be the tweeter waveguide and when moving many milimeters front to back they creat a nasty intermodulation, that's why it's better as Kef does it in R3 or Genelec does it in their Ones, meaning releaving the bass duties to a separate woofer or pair of woofers, and then the midrange woofer cone would not have to move so drastically, minimising the problems

 

[uwotm8]

Come on, that's not decent, thats best of the best. Neumann hit that one

Neuman doesn't make woofers by themselves AFAIK and those ones in their speaker are typical, say, Peerless/Seas level. Nothing really exotic or expensive.

 

[3125b]

Come on, that's not decent, thats best of the best

True, that's the best 6.5" midwoofer I've seen measured. 12mm Xmax too if I remember right, that's probably double of what the HEDD manages.
The tweeter is the same on all KH line models, crossed at 1700Hz for the KH150, lower than most but it's also very capable. .

Neuman doesn't make woofers by themselves

They don't make them in-house, but they are custom/co-developed, not just off-the-shelf stuff.

Unfortunately HEDD doesn't specify the tweeter size so that's hard to compare. There is fairly little data on the woofer as well, just 7" diameter (debatable) and 2" vc (a spec that I could never quite make sense of, it seems completely useless as far as driver performance is concerned).

Looking at the specs for the Type 30 again I noticed 125dBSPL per pair - in what world? Even if we give them the benefit of the doubt of +6dB per pair it's 14dB off. There is simply no way.

 

[Ogremic]

Neuman doesn't make woofers by themselves AFAIK and those ones in their speaker are typical, say, Peerless/Seas level. Nothing really exotic or expensive.

True but I'm sure the research to design a woofer with their desired parameters was done together with the producing company. I think their PR said something about 3 years spent in the design of the woofer? I don't know ithe costs, but considering the price they sell the KH150, even a 2-300E woofer is not unmanageable. The tweeter is the identical from their other speakers (80 and 120, for sure)