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Topping E70 Stereo DAC Review

Rate this DAC:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 8 2.1%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 8 2.1%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 45 11.9%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 317 83.9%

  • Total voters
    378

antcollinet

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The conclusion is that even a cheap audio card with modest dac characteristics, but with analog volume control will be preferable to this and similar dacs. And if you have an audio card even without analog volume control, it is not really worth buying an external dac.
If you have to turn it down by 70 dB (with e70 we will listen to 10 bits at best)), all cats are gray in the dark room)).

Or as an option for this dac - a separate still analog volume control. But I don't really like the idea.
If you have set up your gain structure such that you are routinely listening to your music with the volume set at -70dB (or even close to that) then the problem is not with the volume control - it is with the operator.
 

Trell

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If you have set up your gain structure such that you are routinely listening to your music with the volume set at -70dB (or even close to that) then the problem is not with the volume control - it is with the operator.
Of course it is, and here we have this older thread in another forum. Like cable speakers never gets old nor does level mismatch:

 

Killingbeans

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The conclusion is that even a cheap audio card with modest dac characteristics, but with analog volume control will be preferable to this and similar dacs.

Nope. That was the conclusion in the dark ages of digital volume control. Not today:
 

Attachments

  • ESSTech - Digital vs Analog Volume Control.pdf
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misterdog

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it's still better for the sub to do the cross over

Use an XLR splitter cable and feed full signal to both mains and sub.

Using a sub to do Xover, then pass through, seems fraught with potential signal degradation to me.
 

Bleib

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Subjective review
 

staticV3

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Lol wow so 'bold' o_O:facepalm::p
They dared to do what no one else did
courage-apple.gif
 

Trell

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If you have to turn it down by 70 dB (with e70 we will listen to 10 bits at best)), all cats are gray in the dark room)).

Or as an option for this dac - a separate still analog volume control. But I don't really like the idea.
If you’ll have to turn down the volume by 70 dB then you’ve a level mismatch between the DAC and the amplifier or active monitors.

This is not uncommon and one solution is to use passive attenuators or a volume pot.

Here is a post on the RME forum discussing this along with examples of attenuators and volume pot.


>>>Level mismatch is a continuing topic on our forum and support line. The most often reported problem is that active monitors are far too sensitive. The low volume click and pop when turning a unit on/off turns into a quite loud one. A volume control pot then has a very limited operation area, and the master fader in TotalMix has to be lowered to below -20 dB constantly. This also raises concerns about reduced audio resolution. With such a level mismatch hum and noise can also become audible.

What needs to be done in such cases is to make the connected amplifier or speakers/active monitors as insensitive as possible. Ignore whatever the current setting print on the monitor says, choose one that makes them as low in volume as possible.

Some customers encounter situations where this is not enough. We heard of professional and very powerful active monitors using a reference level of +4 dBu, which seems to equal full output power. Setting an RME unit to -10 dBV, which equals +4 dBu at full output level, then again requires to lower TotalMix FX to far more than -20 dB to be able to work at a typical studio listening level - plus having all the above disadvantages/problems.

The solution here is to use passive level attenuation between the RME interface and the amp/active monitor's input by a simple voltage divider, built of 2 (unbalanced) or three (balanced) resistors per channel. Do a Google search for 'line level audio attenuators' or just 'audio attenuators', and you will realize that this is not a RME problem, but a long time classic found everywhere - even in home HiFi. And this is also the reason that the web is not only full of examples on how to build such parts, including the part values and circuit diagrams, but why they are also available at reasonable prices in various models from various manufacturers.

<<<
 

R.Vic

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JTS MA-123​

Attenuation-10dB ±1dB
And this is not good - you can get mismatch of channels up to 2 dB.
 

Trell

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JTS MA-123​

Attenuation-10dB ±1dB
And this is not good - you can get mismatch of channels up to 2 dB.
There you are, if you've a level mismatch that you can't solve by changing the reference output level on the DAC or the input sensitivity on the amp/active monitor to have a better match. A stereo analogue volume pot will have some channel imbalance as well, but a good one less than 2 dB.

So having to reduce the volume level on a DAC by 70 dB for normal listening is huge, so perhaps get devices that work better together? That does not imply that the devices are bad in any way, just not well fitted together.
 

sonci99

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Subjective review
I notice that he still "prefers" SMSL Su9 Pro, unfortunately no measurements from Amir for that dac, not that it makes any difference in the end. They all measure the same.
 

Bleib

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I notice that he still "prefers" SMSL Su9 Pro, unfortunately no measurements from Amir for that dac, not that it makes any difference in the end. They all measure the same.
Yeah I know. But even here some people think that DACs have certain personalities. I watch some of these mainly because I want opinions on usability.
 
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Yeah I know. But even here some people think that DACs have certain personalities. I watch some of these mainly because I want opinions on usability.
I think what most electrical engineers and people who like to measure things know and believe in is, that the analog output stage of a DAC can make a difference. I think all OPamps sound the same in ideal conditions and most output stage designs are very similar, but the impedance the output stage sees or how it reacts to differences in capacitance through slight differences in implementation could make a discernable difference. The low input impedance of, say, a Topping Pre90 (2k, yikes) can suck the life out of one DAC output and not the other. But reviewers like iiWi and all the other guys reviewing DACs on Youtube live in fantasy land.
 
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Bleib

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I think what most electrical engineers and people who like to measure things know and believe in is, that the analog output stage of a DAC can make a difference. I think all OPamps sound the same in ideal conditions and most output stage designs are very similar, but the impedance the output stage sees or how it reacts to differences in capacitance through slight differences in implementation could make a discernable difference. The low input impedance of, say, a Topping Pre90 (2k, yikes) can suck the life out of one DAC output and not the other. But reviewers like iiWi and all the other guys reviewing DACs on Youtube live in fantasy land.
Could be. You could test out your theory a bit. What's the output impedance of the DACs he has reviewed?
 
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Could be. You could test out your theory a bit. What's the output impedance of the DACs he has reviewed?
Generally (meaning as a broad generalisation) the output impedance of the Topping DACs and SMSL is around 100-200 Ohms. Those fancy "boutique" DACs vary greatly. Denafrips Ares II, which iWii just LOVES, has an alleged output impedance of 2k4, which is weirdly high. A competently designed output stage with modern OPamps can easily achieve an output impedance of well under 200Ohms and act as a nearly ideal voltage source into most inputs. You can theoretically have very low distortion with matched impedances as long as the output stage can supply the current, but from a compatibility and best practice standpoint, the goal should be to keep the output impedance as low as possible.
Impedance mismatch because of badly designed input or output stages is 99% of what audiophiles mean, when they talk about "synergy" and "component matching". That's also why a weirdly designed cable with strange materials and connectors CAN actually sound different. Ideal electronics shouldn't care about cables, and most don't but, but we've all seen measurements of not so ideal "audiophile" equipment...
My guess would be, that most of these DAC reviewers don't care about impedances and don't even know that it could be an issue. I also think that it's high time that serious audio measurement sites should include impedance ratings and start testing with low input impedance loads, because it's really important. A 400Ohm output into a 2k input can sound really, really distorted and wrong. This is important information, when deciding on a source or amp.
 

Leva

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Hi. FYI. I asked Topping if their RC-22 metal remote control will work with E70 and they replied yes. Also confirmed that it will not work with PRE90. Just don't like those plastic remotes that comes in the box.



Dear Sir/Madam

Sorry for the late reply as we just came back from our CNY Holiday.

It can work for the E70 but not the Pre90.

Best Regards


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TOPPING SERVICE
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