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"Low Capacitance" Cables?

Doodski

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Yes, that makes sense. I had the more popular dictionary meaning and it was gobbledygook. :D
 

DMill

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Not as blingy, but I don't care because I don't spend much time peering around the back of my equipment at cables.
I rewired about 6 months ago. I finally purged the last of the audiophile cables. The Audioquest speaker cables I had were rigid and the wire sharp at the termination ends, it physically hurt my hands to remove the banana plugs. Needless to say rewiring with 12 ga. worlds best cable from Amazon was much easier and of course sounded identical. In the past I had a similar experience with an expensive interconnect that pulled an RCA jack out of the back of an amp when I unplugged it. I literally have a box of thousands of dollars retail in copper. I may donate it for scrap… I just don’t have the heart to sell it to someone who thinks it will help.
 

Doodski

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I rewired about 6 months ago. I finally purged the last of the audiophile cables. The Audioquest speaker cables I had were rigid and the wire sharp at the termination ends, it physically hurt my hands to remove the banana plugs. Needless to say rewiring with 12 ga. worlds best cable from Amazon was much easier and of course sounded identical. In the past I had a similar experience with an expensive interconnect that pulled an RCA jack out of the back of an amp when I unplugged it. I literally have a box of thousands of dollars retail in copper. I may donate it for scrap… I just don’t have the heart to sell it to someone who thinks it will help.
Sell it under the premise that the integrity of connection is better and the reliability is up too. :D
 

fpitas

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Yes, that makes sense. I had the more popular dictionary meaning and it was gobbledygook. :D
At ASR, we really are strangers in a strange land ;)
 

Killingbeans

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Those are ludicrously expensive. No reason to pay that much. Perfectly fine interconnects are available at 1/4 to 1/3 the price.

I don't think the prices are that bad. It's okay for a bit of handmade audio bling. Wouldn't be able to do it cheaper myself and still make a decent profit.

The claims about transparency and detail are silly though.
 
OP
MattHooper

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I rewired about 6 months ago. I finally purged the last of the audiophile cables. The Audioquest speaker cables I had were rigid and the wire sharp at the termination ends, it physically hurt my hands to remove the banana plugs. Needless to say rewiring with 12 ga. worlds best cable from Amazon was much easier and of course sounded identical. In the past I had a similar experience with an expensive interconnect that pulled an RCA jack out of the back of an amp when I unplugged it. I literally have a box of thousands of dollars retail in copper. I may donate it for scrap… I just don’t have the heart to sell it to someone who thinks it will help.

I still have something of a grab bag of cables in terms of interconnects. I have a lot of the old Kimber PBJ interconnects that were all the rage in, I think, the 90s.
So those are really old (makes me wonder: is there any degradation in terms of connections or anything I need to take care of with such old cables?).
I have some Audioqest too I think, even some Nordost I think is still in there. I have known audiophiles who owned lots of different expensive cables so when I've needed some cables instead of having to buy any I would get their cast offs. I'm probably going to change the Audioquest cables for some basic Mogami or Audioblast cables. (Or possibly some from Benchmark).
 

egellings

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I get told that "tubes are for boobs" until I fire up my homebrew toob (sic) amps and the skeptic gives them a listen. Skeptic often tends to be surprised that the devices can do that. Of course, the next comment is why bother when you can do that with lightweight S.S. gear? I say if you prefer lightweight S.S. gear, then go with that. Whatever makes you nun-handles happy. Part of my enjoyment is that I gits (sic) to say, "made 'em muh self".
 
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MattHooper

MattHooper

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I get told that "tubes are for boobs" until I fire up my homebrew toob (sic) amps and the skeptic gives them a listen. Skeptic often tends to be surprised that the devices can do that. Of course, the next comment is why bother when you can do that with lightweight S.S. gear? I say if you prefer lightweight S.S. gear, then go with that. Whatever makes you nun-handles happy. Part of my enjoyment is that I gits (sic) to say, "made 'em muh self".

[Off Thread Topic]

My brother in law is something of an audiophile - appreciates good quality sound- though of the more old-school engineering oriented no-nonsense/woo-woo type. Years ago during a visit he saw my old CJ MV55 tube amp in my system. He was perplexed as to why anyone would want to still use tubes. When he started listening to my system it was funny watching his expression change in real time to puzzlement, shock, amazement. He said he'd never heard some of the qualities before, how natural voices sounded, a sense of thereness, realism. An hour in and he started asking about where to buy tube amps. :p
Of course it's entirely possible the tube amp didn't sound any different - much less 'better' - from the Harman Kardon SS amp the tube amp had replaced. So he could have just been reacting to the general sound of my system, speakers etc. But at the very least, he found out a system using tube amps was capable of fantastic sound quality. He didn't end up buying a tube amp, btw. He came to his senses.

[/Off Thread Topic]
 

dshreter

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So those are really old (makes me wonder: is there any degradation in terms of connections or anything I need to take care of with such old cables?).

Yes, they should be popped off periodically (like annually, not often) for a little cleaning. The RCAs often corrode lightly, and over time the cables can get frozen on. I’m sure this can also impact the quality of the connection, but that’s a secondary concern to just keeping everything in good working order.
 

egellings

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[Off Thread Topic]

My brother in law is something of an audiophile - appreciates good quality sound- though of the more old-school engineering oriented no-nonsense/woo-woo type. Years ago during a visit he saw my old CJ MV55 tube amp in my system. He was perplexed as to why anyone would want to still use tubes. When he started listening to my system it was funny watching his expression change in real time to puzzlement, shock, amazement. He said he'd never heard some of the qualities before, how natural voices sounded, a sense of thereness, realism. An hour in and he started asking about where to buy tube amps. :p
Of course it's entirely possible the tube amp didn't sound any different - much less 'better' - from the Harman Kardon SS amp the tube amp had replaced. So he could have just been reacting to the general sound of my system, speakers etc. But at the very least, he found out a system using tube amps was capable of fantastic sound quality. He didn't end up buying a tube amp, btw. He came to his senses.

[/Off Thread Topic]
Poor soul.
 

Angsty

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dlaloum

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I’d recommend reading the design notes accessible by a link on that page. LC-1 is the lowest capacitance audio interconnect that I know of. Blue Jeans Cable is based in Seattle, Washington.
the LC1 are very good low C cables/interconnect - however they are not very flexible... something to keep in mind.
I use them.

But they have sometimes been difficult/awkward to use.
 

Angsty

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When you have interlink cables running close to magnetic sources (transformers) or directly running in parallel with mains cables in direct contact go for starquad.
Starquad won't hurt anyway.
Blue Jeans sells starquad cables but does not recommend them for unbalanced applications. This is a long-ish excerpt of why.

“If, on the other hand, we were to use an unshielded twisted pair to convey signals in an unbalanced circuit, figuring that twisted pair cables provide common mode noise rejection, we'd get a rude surprise. Common mode noise rejection won't work in an unbalanced circuit, because we're not getting signal current flow in the ground conductor; meanwhile, by dispensing with a shield, we've given up the only protection that an unbalanced circuit can provide against noise.

Confusion of these concepts is fairly common, and understandable. One will often hear in audio discussions that "twisted pairs provide superior noise rejection," because it's often assumed that it is the cable construction itself, rather than the equipment circuitry, that accounts for common mode noise rejection; as we've discussed above, it's really the combination of the two which account for the phenomenon.

This misconception sometimes leads to people using shielded twisted-pair balanced audio cable as an unbalanced interconnect; they will ground one of the two signal wires at both ends of the cable, and then ground the shield--sometimes at both ends, but sometimes only at one end, causing a loss of shield effectiveness.

The problem with this sort of construction is that it dramatically increases the capacitance of the cable by adding the shield to the one side. Instead of just the capacitance between the two conductors, one now has the total of (1) the capacitance between the two conductors, and (2) the capacitance between the signal wire and the shield. As capacitance in audio cable is very definitely an enemy, this is a serious sacrifice to make, especially when there is no noise rejection benefit.

Coaxial cable, not twisted pair audio cable, is the right choice when connecting unbalanced components.”

 

Angsty

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the LC1 are very good low C cables/interconnect - however they are not very flexible... something to keep in mind.
I use them.

But they have sometimes been difficult/awkward to use.
That’s not been my experience. My LC-1’s are among my most flexible cables, more so than my Transparents and my Straightwire Symphonys.

I do have a Blue Jeans Belden 1694A terminated with Canare plugs that look very similar to the LC-1, but they are not nearly as flexible. I also have a short pair of Belden 1505As that are more flexible than 1694A, but less so than LC-1.

If flexibility is more important than minimum capacitance, the Blue Jeans/Belden 1505F with Canare plugs is an excellent hi-flex cable with low but slightly higher capacitance per unit length than LC-1. I use it for a digital coax for my DAC that’s in a tight space.

As you can tell, I’ve spent WAY too much time reading about cables on their site. I prefer Blue Jeans for their excellent construction and no-bullshit engineering design.
 
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JP

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That’s not been my experience. My LC-1’s are among my most flexible cables, more so than my Transparents and my Straightwire Symphonys.

My experience echos @dlaloum, but you’ll only find quality pro cable here.
 

solderdude

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Blue Jeans sells starquad cables but does not recommend them for unbalanced applications. This is a long-ish excerpt of why.

“If, on the other hand, we were to use an unshielded twisted pair to convey signals in an unbalanced circuit, figuring that twisted pair cables provide common mode noise rejection, we'd get a rude surprise. Common mode noise rejection won't work in an unbalanced circuit, because we're not getting signal current flow in the ground conductor; meanwhile, by dispensing with a shield, we've given up the only protection that an unbalanced circuit can provide against noise.

Confusion of these concepts is fairly common, and understandable. One will often hear in audio discussions that "twisted pairs provide superior noise rejection," because it's often assumed that it is the cable construction itself, rather than the equipment circuitry, that accounts for common mode noise rejection; as we've discussed above, it's really the combination of the two which account for the phenomenon.

This misconception sometimes leads to people using shielded twisted-pair balanced audio cable as an unbalanced interconnect; they will ground one of the two signal wires at both ends of the cable, and then ground the shield--sometimes at both ends, but sometimes only at one end, causing a loss of shield effectiveness.

The problem with this sort of construction is that it dramatically increases the capacitance of the cable by adding the shield to the one side. Instead of just the capacitance between the two conductors, one now has the total of (1) the capacitance between the two conductors, and (2) the capacitance between the signal wire and the shield. As capacitance in audio cable is very definitely an enemy, this is a serious sacrifice to make, especially when there is no noise rejection benefit.

Coaxial cable, not twisted pair audio cable, is the right choice when connecting unbalanced components.”


It is perfectly fine to use shielded starquad cables for unbalanced circuits. Yes, it has a higher capacitance but as long as the cables are not unusually long, with some unusually high output resistance (some tube gear) or used for phono cartridges this is no problem at all.

As with everything in audio. You should use what can/should be used. This is true for cables and gear.
I would not recommend to use NOT shielded cables for unbalanced connections anyway. Yet there are plenty of audiophools doing this and claiming superior sound.
 

Doodski

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I would not recommend to use NOT shielded cables for unbalanced connections anyway. Yet there are plenty of audiophools doing this and claiming superior sound.
Thanks for saying that. It's absurd but peeps go for that braided glamour shot stuff sometimes.
 

tuga

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I’d recommend reading the design notes accessible by a link on that page. LC-1 is the lowest capacitance audio interconnect that I know of. Blue Jeans Cable is based in Seattle, Washington.
The lowest capacitance interconnect that I know of is the DNM. Capacitance is much lower than that of the LC1 due to the the spaced parallel conductors, but it’s not shielded.
 

markanini

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Capacitance is not an issue for low impedance signals like RCA cables normally are used for. Prefer shielding quality, durability, price etc in this context.
 

dlaloum

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Capacitance is not an issue for low impedance signals like RCA cables normally are used for. Prefer shielding quality, durability, price etc in this context.
Capacitance is a huge issue for turntable interconnects - particularly if the turntable is to use high inductance cartridges (MM / MI) not so much an issue for MC cartridges.
 
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