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Anything better then a Mac mini?

gianventu

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Hi everybody,
my first post here, I am from Italy, so please forgive my english and the mistakes I inevitably will make.
I would like to have some advices from you, I consider this forum the best in the web.
In my system, I am running a Mac mini with JRiver, connected to a Devialet D premier through a usb/spdif interface (Gustard U12), since 2016.
Using Dirac, that seemed to me the best solution.
What I am asking to you is if there are alternative solutions that could improve my set up, considering that lots of people that were using a pc/mac are now adopting different streaming solutions. I am not interested in streaming services at the moment, having tons of music stored on my NAS.
To ease your precious advices, I specify my setup below:
Nas Qnap
Mac Mini late 2012 16gb SSD JRiver 27
Dirac
Gustard U12
Devialet D Premier
Martin Logan Vista + two REL T5i subs
Thank you for your help.
 
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gianventu

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You have not told us what problem you are trying to solve by upgrading from your current setup. If it works, there is no need to upgrade.
Don’have a real problem, just wanted to know, according to you, if there is a better streaming option then using the mac mini to improve sound quality, compatible with Dirac.
 

Mal

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You have not told us what problem you are trying to solve by upgrading from your current setup. If it works, there is no need to upgrade.
His problem is not knowing if there is something that might improve his set up. He might not have any idea about how his set up might be improved and is looking for suggestions covering all the bases. This is fine, why should he have to come up with a specific problem that needs to be solved?

And what do you mean by "works"? A speaker you hate might "work", but for you it just doesn't sound very good! Or do you take "work" to mean "sounds so great I don't need to upgrade"? If so, that makes your statement an oxymoron.
 
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Wicky

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If the software runs on the Mac mini acceptably I wouldn't look to change anything. A lot of people like the Mac mini for audio applications because it runs very quiet, low power consumption, and form-factor. You can of course look at specialist streaming hardware (Auarlic, Matrix, Roon Nucleus, et. al.) but IMO these are just glorified PC's in pretty boxes and only offer cosmetic/convenience over what you have now.

[edit] I would add if you did wish to consider a dedicated streamer you would most likely want it to support Dirac and something like DLNA for access to NAS files [/edit]
 

Mal

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You will not improve your sound by changing anything in the digital domain - especially your streamer - as long as what you have is working correctly.
What about replacing the streamer with one that has better noise isolation, or deals better with internet cut outs, or power outages? My firestick just stopped streaming BBC Radio 3 and did not tell me why - a better streamer might tell me what went wrong and/or restart radio 3 as smoothly as possible.
 
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gianventu

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I recently found out that is possible with JRiver using the DSP (Dirac plug in) with DLNA connected devices, that is why I was asking if I could improve using a dedicate streamer bypassing the Mac Mini USB, using it as a simple media server (I have other settings spreaded out in my house dlna connected). I read, for exemple, that many people found a significant improvement using a SOtm or similar. Honestly I don’t to belive that a simple streamer can make such a difference, but having your opinion, will help. The answers I already recived, are confirming my thoughts.
 

Mal

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If the software runs on the Mac mini acceptably I wouldn't look to change anything. A lot of people like the Mac mini for audio applications because it runs very quiet....
Not that quiet - you can still hear the fan and hard disk. So replace it with a fanless system & solid state HD to go completely silent. You can build a silent computer that runs MAC OS:

... or, people are saying good things about Mac mini M1, so you might get a quiet enough machine by simply upgrading...
 

Keith_W

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His problem is not knowing if there is something that might improve his set up. He might not have any idea about how his set up might be improved and is looking for suggestions covering all the bases. This is fine, why should he have to come up with a specific problem that needs to be solved?

And what do you mean by "works"? A speaker you hate might "work", but for you it just doesn't sound very good! Or do you take "work" to mean "sounds so great I don't need to upgrade"? If so, that makes your statement an oxymoron.

The first step in any upgrade pathway is to determine what you are not happy about, then find out what is causing the problem, and then work out steps to fix it. If you do not have a problem, then there is nothing to solve. We do not have enough information to work out if he is lacking computing power, or does not like the software interface, or does not like the sound (in which case the issue might be somewhere else in the system, e.g. the room). Listing a system, not identifying a problem or issue, and asking for general upgrade advice will not get you very good advice. So the first step has to be to ask the OP to clarify what the problem is that he is not happy about.
 

Wicky

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Not that quiet - you can still hear the fan and hard disk. So replace it with a fanless system & solid state HD to go completely silent. You can build a silent computer that runs MAC OS:

... or, people are saying good things about Mac mini M1, so you might get a quiet enough machine by simply upgrading...
Agree, a fanless, preferably ARM based system would be the best from a quiet/lower power consumption perspective. I have the M1 mini and find it very quiet although I'm told there's a fan in there somewhere!
 

Mal

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Did you catch the call for Mac Dirac testers? Looks great for Mac users (but also indicate that they develop stuff for Windows first, with Mac as an afterthought. So, for avid Dirac users, maybe getting a Windows box would be best if you want to be bang up to date... or get both to maximise testing capability...)

 

Wicky

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I read, for exemple, that many people found a significant improvement using a SOtm or similar. Honestly I don’t to belive that a simple streamer can make such a difference, but having your opinion, will help. The answers I already recived, are confirming my thoughts.
There are people that believe dedicated "audiophile grade" streamers offer a sonic improvement by improved handling of electric noise etc... I've not found any credible evidence supporting these claims. My own experience of using a dedicated streamer (LINN) vs direct connection to a Mac mini there was no discernible difference sonically.
 

antcollinet

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What about replacing the streamer with one that has better noise isolation, or deals better with internet cut outs, or power outages? My firestick just stopped streaming BBC Radio 3 and did not tell me why - a better streamer might tell me what went wrong and/or restart radio 3 as smoothly as possible.
That falls into the realm of not working correctly. If your internet stops, no streamer can help you. If the power goes off - what do you expect to happen, absent a UPS? Preventing dropouts are not what is meant by improving sound quality.
 

Mal

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The first step in any upgrade pathway is to determine what you are not happy about, then find out what is causing the problem, and then work out steps to fix it. If you do not have a problem, then there is nothing to solve. We do not have enough information to work out if he is lacking computing power, or does not like the software interface, or does not like the sound (in which case the issue might be somewhere else in the system, e.g. the room). Listing a system, not identifying a problem or issue, and asking for general upgrade advice will not get you very good advice. So the first step has to be to ask the OP to clarify what the problem is that he is not happy about.
What if he is happy with everything, but wondering if he might be happier, but has no idea how he might be happier? It might be useful to brainstorm everything and then he can select a few things to try. He might think he's happy enough with the background noise but (maybe) reducing it would make him even happier. He might upgrade his Mac Mini and have no idea why he is happier (the subliminal fan noise reduction might be making him happier but he doesn't know it...)
 

Mal

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That falls into the realm of not working correctly. If your internet stops, no streamer can help you. If the power goes off - what do you expect to happen, absent a UPS? Preventing dropouts are not what is meant by improving sound quality.
Maybe that's an opportunity for streamer designers! Build in some help...
 

antcollinet

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Not that quiet - you can still hear the fan and hard disk. So replace it with a fanless system & solid state HD to go completely silent. You can build a silent computer that runs MAC OS:

... or, people are saying good things about Mac mini M1, so you might get a quiet enough machine by simply upgrading...
IMO, if he wants to change the hardware to reduce mechanical noise, then a Raspberry pi or similar might be the correctd solution.

I've just set up a Rpi with the official screen, using Picoreplayer. I now have a fanless Solid state totally silent streamer with touch screen interface, for around £160, that is audibly identical to any streamer at any price - assuming they are both outputting into the same DAC. I could even integrate Camilla DSP into a Raspi solution if I didn't alreay have the MiniDSP Flex.

Alternatively for something off the shelf, the Wiim Mini or Wiim Pro will do the same job (but without the screen)


Both of these solutions are much cheaper than building a silent PC that will run MacOS



PiCorePlayer screenshot:
 

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antcollinet

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I recently found out that is possible with JRiver using the DSP (Dirac plug in) with DLNA connected devices, that is why I was asking if I could improve using a dedicate streamer bypassing the Mac Mini USB, using it as a simple media server (I have other settings spreaded out in my house dlna connected). I read, for exemple, that many people found a significant improvement using a SOtm or similar. Honestly I don’t to belive that a simple streamer can make such a difference, but having your opinion, will help. The answers I already recived, are confirming my thoughts.
DSP is one area that you could improve sound if you don't already have it.

However it may be more cost effective (and future proof) to do that in a separate device (such as a Minidsp) rather than changing your streamer to one with DSP built in.

Or you could get DSP software installed in your Mac Mini. I was using (for a while) Soundsource with a convolution filter plugin to implement REW filters. Sound source only costs <$50 - and REW and the plugin are both free.
 

Mal

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IMO, if he wants to change the hardware to reduce mechanical noise, then a Raspberry pi or similar might be the correctd solution.

I've just set up a Rpi with the official screen, using Picoreplayer. I now have a fanless Solid state totally silent streamer with touch screen interface, for around £160, that is audibly identical to any streamer at any price - assuming they are both outputting into the same DAC. I could even integrate Camilla DSP into a Raspi solution if I didn't alreay have the MiniDSP Flex.

Alternatively for something off the shelf, the Wiim Mini or Wiim Pro will do the same job (but without the screen)


Both of these solutions are much cheaper than building a silent PC that will run MacOS

Fair points, but it's safer sticking to tried and tested, I'd be going the "upgrade to latest Mac Mini route..." (Actually I wouldn't do anything, if I'm happy then that's good enough... I wouldn't be looking to get even happier... that might make me unhappy...)
 

jae

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Ideally for playing local files wouldn't one just do something along the lines of using upnp/dlna server running directly on the NAS itself? This would essentially allow you to get a streamer like the Wiim/Wiim Pro for not only for accessing your own local libraries, but also streaming services in the future, ditching the computer. This can be controlled from any phone or computer using an app. The importance of the PC currently is that is is essentially functioning as as host for dirac, so you could replace it with a minidsp flex or similar to continue using dirac. Or you can stream directly from your mobile phone wirelessly via the minidsp flex bluetooth using the appropriate mobile apps like to access your files or streaming services directly. None of this is going to really do anything for sound quality, but maybe it could have better quality of life if you don't want to have a full desktop computer involved in the process. If it's working fine for you currently it might not be worth changing it.
 
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