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RF Air

RF Air

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He had to type some number in. 90% is obviously wrong. 30% isn't scary enough. But 75% is juuuust right.

I bought a Topping product from a seller on Amazon UK. Used it almost daily for a year or two. It doesn't seem illegal or a fake Chinese copy of a Chinese DAC. Guess I was one of the statistically unlikely lucky ones, eh?
Yes, you are! Number One of the lucky ones! I feel terrible for those other three... wait, I'm one of those three! o_O
 

threni

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Yes, you are! Number One of the lucky ones! I feel terrible for those other three... wait, I'm one of those three! o_O
Sounds like you got a return. Someone lost their remote, bought a new one and returned it without the remote.
Happened to a friend the other day (not Amazon - high street chain in the UK). Bought a toaster or something, got it home and it was obviously used, crumbs etc, missing wrapper. Just took it back for a refund or replacement. It happens. It shouldn't, but I suspect it's just laziness on the part of people who aren't paid enough to care about it, rather than fraud or anything deliberate.
 

rcstevensonaz

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Hello @GD Fan

I was aware this was HiFi College and looked at the Ratings, ...

I went to Apos as recommended ( @rcstevensonaz ) and when I input my Email Address, it popped up all of my information including a Credit Card of mine to make the purchase of the E70. I am not sure or can't quite recall when I purchased from Apos before, maybe an OPPO Player many years back? Anyway, it appears to be much better as far as authentic Retailer vs. the HiFi College Retailer at Amazon.
There is also a possibility that HiFi College is what Apos uses as their store front on Amazon; or perhaps even Topping's direct sales. I've haven't checked into it; but it is possible.
 
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RF Air

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I buy from Amazon because, between the UK distance selling rules (return practically anything without giving a reason in the first 14 days of purchase) and Amazon's really good return policy (check you're buying from Amazon, or a seller which is covered by the policy, which is possibly all of them), and paying with a credit card any problem with fake/faulty/missing etc stuff is literally someone elses problem. I really wouldn't worry about it (unless the consumer laws are substantially worse where you are...but surely you still have Amazon's protection, right?).
Oh yes, Amazon makes a lot of sense for a lot of purchases. I do not have any issues with Returns.

I just fear that it's difficult to authenticate some products if they are shoveled out without verifiable wrapping. I know Amazon has repackaged a couple products I received, one incident that damaged the product in transit due to lack of original vendor protective packaging. The Product was still original, but damaged and undesirable. When there is a problem with handling, that leaves the door open to a host of concerns. It's more of an inconvenience to handle these problems, not as much as a risk.
 
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RF Air

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There is also a possibility that HiFi College is what Apos uses as their store front on Amazon; or perhaps even Topping's direct sales. I've haven't checked into it; but it is possible.
Yes, that thought crossed my mind and I was going to check into it. There is a mislabeled nomenclature of "E7" on the Apos website which caught my attention. They also state that all they sell is new items and have a liberal 45 day return guarantee. It seem's that there is higher degree of "authenticity" (whatever that means) which I guess is all perception for anyone. As you stated (EDIT: you did not state this, another source Off-Forum told me), Apos is the preferred Vendor for Topping at their website, we obviously can only go on clues as to how they process product fulfillment. I am surprised Walmart did not come up as a vendor (or perhaps they are).
 

threni

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Oh yes, Amazon makes a lot of sense for a lot of purchases. I do not have any issues with Returns.

I just fear that it's difficult to authenticate some products if they are shoveled out without verifiable wrapping. I know Amazon has repackaged a couple products I received, one incident that damaged the product in transit due to lack of original vendor protective packaging. The Product was still original, but damaged and undesirable. When there is a problem with handling, that leaves the door open to a host of concerns. It's more of an inconvenience to handle these problems, not as much as a risk.
Sounds like two problems:
1) Authentication. Ideally you'd be able to quote your serial number to the manufacturer and they could confirm it was valid, maybe shipped to your region. I've bought quite cheap items and had a serial number you could check this way. (I never bothered - they worked, that's all I care about.) I imagine they do this with items which are more likely to suffer from counterfeits - storage, for example. (I know someone who bought a portable music/video player in china. It reported a large amount of free space but later he discovered it had been hacked to report that and it actually had a fraction of the storage). I guess for items like DACs and AMPs it's a lot harder to make fakes which don't look like fakes.
2) Damaged in transit. Generally you can tell. It would be nice if products had some sort of indication that they'd been dropped/misthandled. I remember reading a long time ago about some small capsure or something which could be stuck to an item and if dropped it'd break something internally and change colour. Doesn't seem to have caught on. I bought a hard drive recently which was literally in an envelope with no padding. It was dead on arrival but I'd have sent that back even if if had worked because it's just unacceptable to package something that fragile that way. I'd not even sent a £5 cup that way, never mind a hard drive. I have no idea what Amazon was thinking there. I returned it and bought the exact same item which was packaged much better. Both items were from Amzon themselves, not a third party.
 

DLS79

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Imo, you always want to check who the "Ships from" and "Sold by" is for every purchase. If both are amazon, you are pretty much golden. If the shipper is amazon, and seller is someone else, you are usually ok, but it still pays to look into the seller by clicking the link. If neither is amazon, you should really check out the seller.

With that being said i purchased my D50s from "Aoshida HiFi-US" and my A50s from "SHENZHENAUDIO".

Another thing to consider is how good the shipping department is at amazon or the pace you are purchasing from. Then you also have to consider how good the carrier is. You can purchase perfectly fine stuff, and have one of these 2 complete mess up your order in one way or another.
 
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RF Air

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Sounds like you got a return. Someone lost their remote, bought a new one and returned it without the remote.
Happened to a friend the other day (not Amazon - high street chain in the UK). Bought a toaster or something, got it home and it was obviously used, crumbs etc, missing wrapper. Just took it back for a refund or replacement. It happens. It shouldn't, but I suspect it's just laziness on the part of people who aren't paid enough to care about it, rather than fraud or anything deliberate.
Agreed, it was definitely a return. The plastic wrap for the actual product box was missing (Thank you @JustJones for posting ) which makes this obvious to me now. However, the door is still open on all of that speculation, like the Toaster; what's the whole story and why is this not verifiable at the time of shipment? Amazon made enough of an issue to require a PIN that had to be given to the Driver to accept the shipment. Surely they can authenticate new from used or returned items. It's a big ask for millions of products, but standards are easy if they are practical.
 

threni

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Agreed, it was definitely a return. The plastic wrap for the actual product box was missing (Thank you @JustJones for posting ) which makes this obvious to me now. However, the door is still open on all of that speculation, like the Toaster; what's the whole story and why is this not verifiable at the time of shipment? Amazon made enough of an issue to require a PIN that had to be given to the Driver to accept the shipment. Surely they can authenticate new from used or returned items. It's a big ask for millions of products, but standards are easy if they are practical.
I think at the scale Amazon operates they've decided not to check all returns. They're happy their returns policy is enough. I suspect if you did a "contact us" live chat and really kicked off about it... "this is against the law"..."wasting my time having to pack it all up, print a label etc, go to the post office" they might give you a gift card or something. You shouldn't have to go through all this. It's possibly against your laws. They absolutely should be only selling returns, once checked, as seconds, at a discount. But if a seller is doing it via Amazon they can't physically police that, only handle complaints.
 
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RF Air

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Imo, you always want to check who the "Ships from" and "Sold by" is for every purchase. If both are amazon, you are pretty much golden. If the shipper is amazon, and seller is someone else, you are usually ok, but it still pays to look into the seller by clicking the link. If neither is amazon, you should really check out the seller.

With that being said i purchased my D50s from "Aoshida HiFi-US" and my A50s from "SHENZHENAUDIO".

Another thing to consider is how good the shipping department is at amazon or the pace you are purchasing from. Then you also have to consider how good the carrier is. You can purchase perfectly fine stuff, and have one of these 2 complete mess up your order in one way or another.
Thank you @DLS79 for responding. In retrospect, I am having more difficulty with Amazon lately as a shipper/fulfillment vendor. I realize that Amazon as an entity must process and supply delivery, but the results lately have been disappointing. In some cases, commonsensical mis-steps have provided damaged and broken products. There appears to be a lackadaisical standard to the packaging which did not factor as much here, but is still an obvious problem when an unsealed box is sent in lightweight plastic wrap bag.
 
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RF Air

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Sounds like two problems:
1) Authentication. Ideally you'd be able to quote your serial number to the manufacturer and they could confirm it was valid, maybe shipped to your region. I've bought quite cheap items and had a serial number you could check this way. (I never bothered - they worked, that's all I care about.) I imagine they do this with items which are more likely to suffer from counterfeits - storage, for example. (I know someone who bought a portable music/video player in china. It reported a large amount of free space but later he discovered it had been hacked to report that and it actually had a fraction of the storage). I guess for items like DACs and AMPs it's a lot harder to make fakes which don't look like fakes.
2) Damaged in transit. Generally you can tell. It would be nice if products had some sort of indication that they'd been dropped/misthandled. I remember reading a long time ago about some small capsure or something which could be stuck to an item and if dropped it'd break something internally and change colour. Doesn't seem to have caught on. I bought a hard drive recently which was literally in an envelope with no padding. It was dead on arrival but I'd have sent that back even if if had worked because it's just unacceptable to package something that fragile that way. I'd not even sent a £5 cup that way, never mind a hard drive. I have no idea what Amazon was thinking there. I returned it and bought the exact same item which was packaged much better. Both items were from Amzon themselves, not a third party.
Hi @threni,

I think you have it right! Almost any product you purchase has some type of seal or form of authentication of packaging. Serial Numbers was mentioned earlier, but at least some package manufacturers will tell you what to look for to verify the product's originality. Even Best Buy US Retailer sells "Open Box" products at discount which shows you the value of having an Authentic unopened Product Box for original sale.

Amazon as a shipper has become more unreliable recently in my locality. Part of the problem here is there is no one who wants to work which has led to shortages or bottom level laborers with high employment turnover. Internally, there may be cost cutting measures to lower "crating costs" and of course the production pace schedules to meet delivery fulfillment which results in rushed packaging to make the "quota". I know Amazon pays bonuses on the "numbers volume", I don't know if they have a quality or return product quota or metric for production.
 
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DLS79

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There appears to be a lackadaisical standard to the packaging which did not factor as much here, but is still an obvious problem when an unsealed box is sent in lightweight plastic wrap bag.

I've seen almost everything over the years.

for example,about 2 decades ago I watched a ups driver unload a packaged at the end of my driveway. and then get flustered by the shipping manifest. he went back to the cab of the truck for a few minutes, and then must have forgot he hadn't put it on my porch yet, because he started the truck and started backing up (over the package). his face when he realized what he had done is unforgettable.
 

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I purchased a Topping E70 DAC Preamp as a gift from Amazon using the "HiFI College" Retailer. The package was received yesterday which required an Authentication PIN for the driver. The package was in an Amazon plastic shipper with a Topping Box that was unsealed and accessible once it was removed from the outer Amazon Shipper Bag. The product lacked any tape on the box or plastic protection for the unit. The Remote Control was missing, there were smudges on the DAC and it was obvious the product was not a "Fresh" new packaged product.
That's unfortunate and noted never to use "HiFiCollege" as an Amazon 3rd party seller (i.e. nothing to do with Amazon).

The better 3rd party sellers to use for Topping products via Amazon in the US would be Shenzhen Audio or maybe HiFi Go;




JSmith
 
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RF Air

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That's unfortunate and noted never to use "HiFiCollege" as an Amazon 3rd party seller (i.e. nothing to do with Amazon).

The better 3rd party sellers to use for Topping products via Amazon in the US would be Shenzhen Audio or maybe HiFi Go;




JSmith
Thank you @JSmith for the information. There were not many vendors with available inventory when I made my selection to purchase with Amazon. I am accustomed to purchasing directly from the Manufacturer or a Dealer authorized by the Manufacturer. The online Amazon purchase experience has vulnerabilities and I am appreciative of everyone in this Forum for their expertise and resources.

After checking both of the Links you provided, both links loaded to "Fanmusic" as the Seller. Only 4 items available. Must be an Amazon Algorithm that defers to product provider that has stock availability?
 

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That's unfortunate and noted never to use "HiFiCollege" as an Amazon 3rd party seller (i.e. nothing to do with Amazon).
That's "HIFI College" with a space, for all you web indexers out there.
 

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Thank you @JSmith for the information.
No problems, however now I look at this...
... it seems HiFi College is an authorised re-seller for Topping and HiFi Go isn't listed, but Shenzhenaudio is of course being their main distributor channel.

Apos Audio and Parts Express are the US resellers.


JSmith
 

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I've largely stopped shopping at Amazon. Main reasons are they're increasingly not competitive on price, the products on offer are overwhelmingly oddly-named brands I've never heard of, and also there's the issue of used products being sold as new.

My last major Amazon purchase was an AMD 5900X CPU. When it arrived I had to give a PIN, only to find an already-opened box and a processor with thermal paste on it! I tried it, and of course it was immediately obvious it was faulty (WHEA errors), so back it went, along with a complaint letter, to which I've had no reply. I did get a full refund though.

So I bought the CPU from Scan (where I'm about to buy a pair of HD560S's). Amazon can sell me a £10 short cable for them.
 
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RF Air

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No problems, however now I look at this...
... it seems HiFi College is an authorised re-seller for Topping and HiFi Go isn't listed, but Shenzhenaudio is of course being their main distributor channel.

Apos Audio and Parts Express are the US resellers.


JSmith
Thanks @JSmith - I am not sure why I did not see this information earlier from the Topping website link you posted. I am ordering from Apos, Inc. directly through their online store. Their office in the West Coast U.S. puts them close to my location, logistically speaking.
 

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I bought my E70 from Shenzhenaudio. They have a storefront on Amazon. I've never had a problem ordering anything from Amazon, from a wall switchplate cover for $3 to items costing a few thousand and I've never had a problem with returns when I mess up and order the wrong size . Might be because I live in a city that's a major hub or I am careful researching who is providing the item.

Edit: Knock on wood
 
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RF Air

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I've largely stopped shopping at Amazon. Main reasons are they're increasingly not competitive on price, the products on offer are overwhelmingly oddly-named brands I've never heard of, and also there's the issue of used products being sold as new.

My last major Amazon purchase was an AMD 5900X CPU. When it arrived I had to give a PIN, only to find an already-opened box and a processor with thermal paste on it! I tried it, and of course it was immediately obvious it was faulty (WHEA errors), so back it went, along with a complaint letter, to which I've had no reply. I did get a full refund though.

So I bought the CPU from Scan (where I'm about to buy a pair of HD560S's). Amazon can sell me a £10 short cable for them.
Thanks @Yearofthegoat for responding. I am having more difficulty with Amazon myself, although I am seeing it is not everyone's experience. When it comes to thumbtacks, okay Amazon, send it. But authentic and properly packaged products that have value and reliability standards, not going to take a chance if it's avoidable.

I must point out (as @JustJones posted in thread #39), when I had a temporary residence in NYC last year, never had a problem with anything purchased from Amazon for outfitting the Apartment. Doorman always notified me when I had a package delivered and it was expertly packed and labeled. This is not the case for my residence in the Southwest U.S.
 
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