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Amazon Basics 4K HDMI Extractor Review

Rate this HDMI Extractor

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 6 3.5%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 24 14.1%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther

    Votes: 78 45.9%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 62 36.5%

  • Total voters
    170

damirj79

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Does this HDMI exctractor support CEC functions? I mean, is it able to control volume of analog output with TV remote control or is it fixed?

To answer myself:
The extractor does not support ARC and CEC. So it is not even possible to connect it to TV directly and send TV's sound throuh it and convert it to analog.
 

damirj79

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pseudoid

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THIS link for the same item states the following:
- 2CH for L/R or SPDIF stereo output; 5.1CH for SPDIF Output, Supports uncompressed audio such as LPCM. Supports DTS Digital / Dolby Digital pass through (Our device does not decode the digital audio, you will still need an end display that is compatible with those formats) ; DOES NOT SUPPORT ARC FUNCTION.
FWIW to You; because I don't exactly understand what it is trying to state.:oops:
-----------
1)Gefen 1080p HDMI to HDMI Audio De-Embedder with Eight LPCM Audio RCA Outputs
BH #GEGTVHDMI2HD • MFR #GTV-HDMI-2-HDMIAUD
Price >> $199.95
2)8K HDMI Splitter 1x2 by OREI Duplicator with Audio Extractor UltraHD Supports Upto 4K @ 120Hz IR EDID HDCP 2.3 - (BK-102A)
Price >> $99.00
The ones that I am on the watch for are based on a new processor engine called “Arcana”...
3)HDFury 8K “Vrroom” 40Gbps seems to check all the right-boxes including HDMI2.1, but currently at $550
... developing!
 
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D1N0

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Does not use CEC functions so no volume control on RCAs based on this question on Amazon..
"Question:
Does the hdmi arc support also adjust the rca output volume? I would like to control the rca connected speaker volume via the tv remote control
Answer:
No controls, straight thru
By Jason G on December 23, 2015"
It supports ARC and CEC, just not CEC over ARC it seems. Probably because there is nothing to pass through with ARC.

THIS link for the same item states the following:

Not the same. No ARC support.

I noticed that my first link contains 2 different devices first is 4k 30hz pass through second is 4k 60hz pass through like mine. I don't use ARC so can't test is. My TV is too old for it (and has optical and analog outputs, even coaxial I think) Even has a sub out (but that doesn't work because I have set the output to stereo to feed optical to my dac)

This one looks exactly like mine except mine isn't branded. https://www.amazon.com/Avantree-Extractor-Supporting-Pass-Through-Management/dp/B08X2P3NQB/
 
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Haskil

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Le connecteur rond s'appelait autrefois le "9 volts" parce que c'était la tension la plus courante à l'époque. C'est la raison pour laquelle j'ai mis cela entre parenthèses, pas que la tension soit de 9 volts.
Amir : 24 bit, but 48, 96, 192 Khz ?
 

oal

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146 dB is the ideal performance of 24 bit PCM data and we are getting that. This means that the device transparently passes the digital data from HDMI to Coax with no funny conversion to 16 bits and such. This means you can hook up your own high-performance DAC and get proper analog output.
I was looking for a cheap but high-performance solution for an entry level integrated amplifier. Many entry-level amplifiers these days have a built-in DAC with SPDIF input (COAX and/or Toslink). So, I ordered Amazon Basic Audio Extractor reading this review. I thought Raspberry Pi HDMI output to SPDIF input of such amps via the Audio Extractor might be the best and most inexpensive (cheaper than I2S DAC or DDC HAT for Raspberry Pi) music player solution for an entry level integrated amplifier.

However, it did not work for my integrated amp DENON PMA-800NE. I measured THD+N from the pre-out of the amp with Cosmos APU/ADC and REW.
Raspberry Pi I2S -> HiFiBerry Digi+ Pro COAX -> PMA-800NE COAX: THD+N = -90.8dB
Raspberry Pi HDMI -> Amazon Audio Extractor COAX -> PMA-800NE COAX: THD+N = -82.7dB.
Comparing them, THDs are almost same, but noise level is much higher with the Audio Extractor.
2-PMA800-COAX.png

Then, I connected to COAX output form the Audio Extractor to TOPPING D50. Surprisingly, the results were almost same, even with the Audio Extractor was slightly better! Also, these results are almos same as the measuremnet of TOPPING D50 USB input by Amir with AP.
1-D50-COAX.png

I have Marantz NR1200 too which has HDMI input as well as SPDIF input. As you see, HiFiBerry Digi+ Pro and direct HDMI connection from Raspberry Pi to NR1200 are almost same (THD+N = -103dB). But With the Audio Extractor is very bad (-85.dB).
3-NR1200-COAX-HDMI.png

I cannot explain the reason of the results as the digital output from the Audio Extractor should be exactly same. The only explanation I can find is that the Audio Extractor have much jitter and TOPPING D50 can handle them well (with enough buffer?) but PMA-800NE and NR1200 cannot do that. What do you think? Any thoughts?

Following table is the summary of each THD+N.
4-THD-List.png

EDIT: All tests were performed with 48kHz/24bit Sin wave. I used IEC958_SUBFRAME_LE ALSA driver (and the "hdmi:CARD=vc4hdmi1,DEV=0" ALSA PCM device to convert PCM to IEC958) for these tests. I double checked with the Mac HDMI output, CoreAudio Exclusive Mode and REW Signal Generator. However, results of the two machines and drivers were same.
 
Last edited:

damirj79

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It supports ARC and CEC, just not CEC over ARC it seems. Probably because there is nothing to pass through with ARC.



Not the same. No ARC support.

I noticed that my first link contains 2 different devices first is 4k 30hz pass through second is 4k 60hz pass through like mine. I don't use ARC so can't test is. My TV is too old for it (and has optical and analog outputs, even coaxial I think) Even has a sub out (but that doesn't work because I have set the output to stereo to feed optical to my dac)

This one looks exactly like mine except mine isn't branded. https://www.amazon.com/Avantree-Extractor-Supporting-Pass-Through-Management/dp/B08X2P3NQB/

So I did some research about this and basicly not much is available. If you need HDMI ARC converter with working CEC volume control, there are maybe 5 options and some are bad implentation:
- https://www.nubert.de/hdmi-arc-cinch-adapter/a037970
Looks like the best, but expensive and out of stock at the moment

- https://www.amazon.de/-/en/FeinTech...s/dp/B09FKH3PVY/ref=psdc_571760_t1_B00MEPK0SQ
Should be working fine also, I saw some complaints it produces some noises

-https://www.amazon.de/-/en/SOUTHSKY-Converter-Analogue-Extractor-Adjustable-black/dp/B087N4K7KK/ref=sr_1_9?crid=1LZT7VIIETEVV&keywords=HDMI+ARC+Cinch-Adapter&qid=1670845848&s=ce-de&sprefix=hdmi+arc+rca+adapter%2Celectronics%2C92&sr=1-9
I may be noisy, and low output

-https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004745217716.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.59bd2610mdgm27&algo_pvid=0129e5a7-c03f-4312-8180-693de9874dc9&algo_exp_id=0129e5a7-c03f-4312-8180-693de9874dc9-0&pdp_ext_f=%7B"sku_id"%3A"12000030319323554"%7D&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21EUR%2127.83%2120.6%21%21%21%21%21%40210318b816708461247872288ebb42%2112000030319323554%21sea&curPageLogUid=Iy3aXrkR38u8
While in theory it looks good in practice it does not save output volume after power off and it defaults to max volume. There are hundreds of similar devices like this, with same problem, and it makes it unusable just because of saving 2$ for adding flash memory to store last value.

This are more or less all that is available HDMI ARC audio extractor with HDMI CEC volume control. If any one can find more working and complete solutions, you are welcome.

PS: this one looks by far the solution, but is DIY
 

mdsimon2

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I was looking for a cheap but high-performance solution for an entry level integrated amplifier. Many entry-level amplifiers these days have a built-in DAC with SPDIF input (COAX and/or Toslink). So, I ordered Amazon Basic Audio Extractor reading this review. I thought Raspberry Pi HDMI output to SPDIF input of such amps via the Audio Extractor might be the best and most inexpensive (cheaper than I2S DAC or DDC HAT for Raspberry Pi) music player solution for an entry level integrated amplifier.

However, it did not work for my integrated amp DENON PMA-800NE. I measured THD+N from the pre-out of the amp with Cosmos APU/ADC and REW.
Raspberry Pi I2S -> HiFiBerry Digi+ Pro COAX -> PMA-800NE COAX: THD+N = -90.8dB
Raspberry Pi HDMI -> Amazon Audio Extractor COAX -> PMA-800NE COAX: THD+N = -82.7dB.
Comparing them, THDs are almost same, but noise level is much higher with the Audio Extractor.
View attachment 249432
Then, I connected to COAX output form the Audio Extractor to TOPPING D50. Surprisingly, the results were almost same, even with the Audio Extractor was slightly better! Also, these results are almos same as the measuremnet of TOPPING D50 USB input by Amir with AP.
View attachment 249433
I have Marantz NR1200 too which has HDMI input as well as SPDIF input. As you see, HiFiBerry Digi+ Pro and direct HDMI connection from Raspberry Pi to NR1200 are almost same (THD+N = -103dB). But With the Audio Extractor is very bad (-85.dB).
View attachment 249434
I cannot explain the reason of the results as the digital output from the Audio Extractor should be exactly same. The only explanation I can find is that the Audio Extractor have much jitter and TOPPING D50 can handle them well (with enough buffer?) but PMA-800NE and NR1200 cannot do that. What do you think? Any thoughts?

Following table is the summary of each THD+N.
View attachment 249447
PS: I used IEC958_SUBFRAME_LE ALSA driver (and ‘hdmi’ card to covert PCM to IEC958) for this test. I double checked with the Mac HDMI output, CoreAudio Exclusive Mode and REW Signal Generator. However, results of the two machines and drivers were same.

Fascinating, thank you for sharing. Just goes to show how important it is to look at real world system performance rather than individual component performance.

Although this looks more like a grounding / noise issue than a jitter issue to me. If you use the TOSLINK output from the extractor does that help anything?

Michael
 

D1N0

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So I did some research about this and basicly not much is available. If you need HDMI ARC converter with working CEC volume control, there are maybe 5 options and some are bad implentation:
- https://www.nubert.de/hdmi-arc-cinch-adapter/a037970
Looks like the best, but expensive and out of stock at the moment

- https://www.amazon.de/-/en/FeinTech...s/dp/B09FKH3PVY/ref=psdc_571760_t1_B00MEPK0SQ
Should be working fine also, I saw some complaints it produces some noises

-https://www.amazon.de/-/en/SOUTHSKY-Converter-Analogue-Extractor-Adjustable-black/dp/B087N4K7KK/ref=sr_1_9?crid=1LZT7VIIETEVV&keywords=HDMI+ARC+Cinch-Adapter&qid=1670845848&s=ce-de&sprefix=hdmi+arc+rca+adapter%2Celectronics%2C92&sr=1-9
I may be noisy, and low output

-https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005004745217716.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.59bd2610mdgm27&algo_pvid=0129e5a7-c03f-4312-8180-693de9874dc9&algo_exp_id=0129e5a7-c03f-4312-8180-693de9874dc9-0&pdp_ext_f=%7B"sku_id"%3A"12000030319323554"%7D&pdp_npi=2%40dis%21EUR%2127.83%2120.6%21%21%21%21%21%40210318b816708461247872288ebb42%2112000030319323554%21sea&curPageLogUid=Iy3aXrkR38u8
While in theory it looks good in practice it does not save output volume after power off and it defaults to max volume. There are hundreds of similar devices like this, with same problem, and it makes it unusable just because of saving 2$ for adding flash memory to store last value.

This are more or less all that is available HDMI ARC audio extractor with HDMI CEC volume control. If any one can find more working and complete solutions, you are welcome.

PS: this one looks by far the solution, but is DIY
I use a chromecast for TV watching. Streaming subscription. I can just change volume to the amp using the volume controls of my phone, but usually use the dac remote.
 

oal

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Although this looks more like a grounding / noise issue than a jitter issue to me. If you use the TOSLINK output from the extractor does that help anything?
Thank you for the suggestion! I hadn't thought of that (grounding / noise). I will test it with TOSLINK this coming weekend.
 
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oal

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Although this looks more like a grounding / noise issue than a jitter issue to me. If you use the TOSLINK output from the extractor does that help anything?
For the DACs built into these integrated amplifiers, the output of the TOSLINK was nearly identical to the output of the COAX. (I left the COAX cable unplugged during the test with TOSLINK, just in case.) Thus, the deterioration in THD+N was not due to electrical noise.

@amirm , could you check this comment? Digital output of Amazon HDMI Extractor might have lots of jitter. Some DACs cannot remove the jitter well.
5-DAC-HDMI-COAX-TOSLINK.png


I suspected that the 24-bit data was being converted to 16-bit by my Amazon Extractor. However, this was not the case. My old audio interface (SoundBlaster SBX) has a TOSLINK input so it can capture digital data as is. The Amazon Extractor does indeed output 24-bit data in 24-bit and 16-bit data in 16-bit, as does HiFiBerry Digi+ Pro.
6-SBX-SPDIF.png

While comparing the THD+N of the TOPPING D50 via TOSLINK, I noticed jitter components at 1kHz with the Amazon HDMI Audio Extractor.
7-1k-Sin-D50.png

So I performed the J-Test. Oh! The results are totally different.
8-J-Test-D50.png

The built-in DACs in NR1200 and PMA800NE showed similar results.
9-J-Test-NR1200-PMA800.png

I suspect that this large jitter from the Amazon HDMI Audio Extractor has worsened the signal-to-noise ratio of the DACs in NR1200 and PMA800NE. While TOPPING D50 handled the jitter well (non-audible level).
 

Brab

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My Samsung TV optical output is limited to 16 bit. Would this unit improve sound audibly since it isn't inside an electrically noisy TV, and is not limited to 16 bit? Thanks.
 

Mal

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My Samsung TV optical output is limited to 16 bit. Would this unit improve sound audibly since it isn't inside an electrically noisy TV, and is not limited to 16 bit? Thanks.
Why not try it? It's not expensive, and you can easily send it back. Another experiment, to see if it's "noisy TV": get an Amazon Firestick, stick it in your computer monitor, and use this device to feed optical to your speakers from the firestick. Does it sound better than the Samsung optical out? I watch TV using exactly this method - I was really surprised at how much better the sound was from Amazon Prime video than bluetooth. The firestick being such a small device, with outboard power supply may not be as noisy as the Samsung (?) (Check that with experts in this forum! All I can say is that I don't hear anything that upsets me...)
 

MCH

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Why not try it? It's not expensive, and you can easily send it back. Another experiment, to see if it's "noisy TV": get an Amazon Firestick, stick it in your computer monitor, and use this device to feed optical to your speakers from the firestick. Does it sound better than the Samsung optical out? I watch TV using exactly this method - I was really surprised at how much better the sound was from Amazon Prime video than bluetooth. The firestick being such a small device, with outboard power supply may not be as noisy as the Samsung (?) (Check that with experts in this forum! All I can say is that I don't hear anything that upsets me...)
I am afraid the fire stick will also resample everything to 48khz (16bit?) Withe the exception of Amazon music unlimited
 

Mal

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I am afraid the fire stick will also resample everything to 48khz (16bit?) With the exception of Amazon music unlimited
Does it matter for basic TV watching? As I'm happily watching TV with it, so the answer is "no" for me, for now... If Amazon Music Unlimited had Spotify's connectivity I'd be totally in Bezos' camp. But a major fail was my Amazon Fire Tablet not being able to cast to the Firestick, when I was able to access Spotify Connect and feed music to my KEF LSXs using the Amazon Fire Tablet as a controller! I complained to Amazon Support and they couldn't see a way to cast, said they would speak to the engineers,... they haven't got back...
 

Brab

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Thanks for the replies. They encourage me to give the extractor a try.
 

oal

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I suspect that this large jitter from the Amazon HDMI Audio Extractor has worsened the signal-to-noise ratio of the DACs in NR1200 and PMA800NE. While TOPPING D50 handled the jitter well (non-audible level).
IMG_8971.JPG
Teardown of Amazon Basics 4K HDMI Extractor.
It uses 24MHz clock. While HiFiBerry Digi+ Pro has two clocks – 22.5792MHz and 24.576MHz clocks.
24.000MHz / 48kHz = 500
24.576MHz / 48kHz = 512
I think 512 is easier than 500 to create an accurate cycle by dividing the clock.
 

PavelV

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Teardown of Amazon Basics 4K HDMI Extractor.
It uses 24MHz clock. While HiFiBerry Digi+ Pro has two clocks – 22.5792MHz and 24.576MHz clocks.
24.000MHz / 48kHz = 500
24.576MHz / 48kHz = 512
I think 512 is easier than 500 to create an accurate cycle by dividing the clock.

The 24MHz clock is actually just a crystal as a clock source for the chip itself. The audio clocks are regenerated from the HDMI stream and all the timing is determined by the HDMI source.

Edit: You can find more info about HDMI audio jitter in this link (leading to our company website with a product presentation): https://audiopraise.com/projects/internal/vanitypro/hdmi-audio-jitter/
How the audio clocks are determined from the HDMI stream is explained in the linked article from OPPO knowledge base, useful to read.
 
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oal

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The 24MHz clock is actually just a crystal as a clock source for the chip itself. The audio clocks are regenerated from the HDMI stream and all the timing is determined by the HDMI source.

Edit: You can find more info about HDMI audio jitter in this link (leading to our company website with a product presentation): https://audiopraise.com/projects/internal/vanitypro/hdmi-audio-jitter/
How the audio clocks are determined from the HDMI stream is explained in the linked article from OPPO knowledge base, useful to read.
I see now, the 24MHz oscillator is for External Crystal Input of the EP92A3E chip.
Also, thank you for the link. It was a good read.
 
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