Topping L70 Headphone Amp Review

[staticV3]

Why is it that the 60dB line is the only one that looks correct? (slight rhetorical question) Have you just arbitarily set 60dB to be frequency response baseline

60dB Average, 75-85dB Peak seemed like the most sensible "neutral" volume to me. What would you have chosen as reference, average SPL?

I think it would be more useful/representative to set whatever dB level the Harman Curve was designed to be played at by the Harman creators of that research - so I don't know - what volume in dB did they set their headphones to during the study?

Participants were allowed to set volume by themselves and absolue SPL was not part of the Harman target study I'm told, so a Harman specified reference SPL does not exist.

BTW, no matter what SPL I'd have chosen as reference, the resulting +40dB tonality would've remained largely the same:

 

[PeteL]

60dB Average, 75-85dB Peak seemed like the most sensible "neutral" volume to me. What would you have chosen as reference, average SPL?

Participants were allowed to set volume by themselves and absolue SPL was not part of the Harman target study I'm told, so a Harman specified reference SPL does not exist.

BTW, no matter what SPL I'd have chosen as reference, the resulting +40dB tonality would've remained largely the same:
View attachment 248445

60 dB average is about your background music in restaurants, or background music when you want to make sure that your guests are in the conversation and don't pay to much attention to the music. Actually listening to music is more like 80 dB SPL average and peaks about 15 higher. Most (not all of course) mixing engineers choose 85 dB SPL (measured with a spl meter, so RMS) as the base line. They will push it more to make sure the bass don't come totally overwhelming and their mix collapse, and down too and on all kind of transducers, but that's their typical working level.

As for what's relevant to "Harman Bass" I think we should not give it too much thought, people listen to music at the level they want and most have preferred this curve but it's not Gospel. You like to listen to music really low, well most likely you don't care about bass much, and if you do you'll want to apply a bass boost on most headphones, that's all, that's just preferences in the end.

 

[staticV3]

60 dB average is about your background music in restaurants, or background music when you want to make sure that your guests are in the conversation and don't pay to much attention to the music.

60dB average would be the same volume as the person you're talking to with peaks that are 3-5x as loud as that person.
I'd call that highly distracting if background music is the intention.

 

[PeteL]

60dB average would be the same volume as the person you're talking to with peaks that are 3-5x as loud as that person.
I'd call that highly distracting if background music is the intention.

I guess my friends are loud people.

 

[PeteL]

60dB average would be the same volume as the person you're talking to with peaks that are 3-5x as loud as that person.
I'd call that highly distracting if background music is the intention.

You'd be surprised as how fast that adds up though, I see where you get this that an average conversation is 60 dB or so, but it is really quiet objectively. It took the example of restaurant. just the general noise level is higher than that, from the "sum" of all people having "normal" conversations. Just the ambient noise is really close to that and if you just want to be able to even distinguish what is playing, less than 60 is just absence, silence. Different example I know that in Montreal they started to limit outside shows downtown to 90 dB SPL Average, well that don't work, you're not at a show, everybody starts talking to each other and don't listen to the performance, it's just not loud enough, the spl of the crowd itself completely bury the music. Seriously try it, if you listen to music at 70 dB SPL A-Weighted or so, you are a really quiet listener.

 

[bearcatsandor]

My understanding is that 80dB over extended periods of time is the level at which hearing damage begins, yet people here are listening to music at an avearge level of 80 - 85? Really? Do most engineers have hearing damage? I listen at about 70 db, but i'm also someone that brings hi-fi earplugs to the moves. I saw the new Black Panther movie last week, and ascording to my android sound meter, the levels were an average of 80db with peaks of 89!

 

[PeteL]

My understanding is that 80dB over extended periods of time is the level at which hearing damage begins, yet people here are listening to music at an avearge level of 80 - 85? Really? Do most engineers have hearing damage? I listen at about 70 db, but i'm also someone that brings hi-fi earplugs to the moves. I saw the new Black Panther movie last week, and ascording to my android sound meter, the levels were an average of 80db with peaks of 89!

Yep... We generally want to keep it quiet because we earn a living partly with our ears among other skills, but I do think that most audio professionals after a full life in the field do have some sort of hearing damage... I personally am not bad in term of the spectrum, For example I am quite good at this stuff that I like to do, drawing the frequency response of a headphone by ear without measurment. Party trick that gets some wow, usually quite close, and don't have to have my friend repeat what they say, but full disclosure can't hear really low SPL stuff anymore, like background noise, or someone knocking at my door quietly, like embarrassingly so. I have never plugged my ears at movies or shows, I would feel like missing half of it.

 

[amirm]

The bass boost with headphones is quite real at high volumes. Alas, it is quite loud by the time it gets there. I wish hearing damage did not occur or I would always listen at that level. It is very enjoyable for a few seconds I crank it up that loud....

 

[xaxxon]

I’m only using the term stated. Manufacturers should be clearer if either one or the other.

manufacturers don't care if you understand what's going on only if you buy their stuff. They're just going to tell you what you want to hear, even if it's wrong.

 

[Kaiju]

Now please do speakers Amir.

 

[Ziroz]

Good work, but Schiit produces a nearly identical product with identical SINAD numbers in xlr and 1.5x to 4x more power.

Checked their website and It seems Magnius have less power in XLR. And Schiit rate their output at 1% THD instead of 0.1% THD like topping, so if they use the same standard the power would be even lower for the Magnius.
And if you use the unblanced headphone output the Magnius has a sinad of 94 vs 120 for the L70.

 

[Ziroz]

gives their employees seriously better benefits

And where did this part come from?

 

[solderdude]

View attachment 248422

Nice attempt. I'm afraid it is a bit too much though.
You are suggesting here that a HD650 would become extremely muddy and dark at higher levels.
I suggest to listen to the HD650 at your background listening level and at high SPL.
There will be more 'grunt' and you will hear more deep bass.
Humans don't determine loudness at 1kHz but over a larger range from upper bass to lower treble.

Then apply the red trace in EQ to the HD650 (it sounds awful and muffled) and tell me if you think the tonal balance is similar than without EQ at very loud levels.

A small bit of the effect is certainly there of course but it won't follow the Harman curve (as that curve is not based on equal loudness contours) but subbass will be at a higher level.

My understanding is that 80dB over extended periods of time is the level at which hearing damage begins

That is correct but this is about long exposure to average noise levels and music is not similar in properties to average noise levels and people do not listen to average levels of 80dBA in music for prolonged periods of time. Someone playing music all day as background music will do so between 60 and at the most 70dB average.
That said... some clothing stores turn up the music really loud and would not want to be a co-worker there for 5 long days a week.

Recordings are monitored/mixed at around 80dB average levels so when reproducing music and doing some 'active listening' and 'consciously enjoying' music most people are probably around those same listening levels as in the studio. But that does not mean that averaged over an hour of listening to music (not constant noise at that level where one would wear hearing protection because it is really uncomfortable) one does not get the same 'dose' with music.

 

[Robbo99999]

60dB Average, 75-85dB Peak seemed like the most sensible "neutral" volume to me. What would you have chosen as reference, average SPL?

Participants were allowed to set volume by themselves and absolue SPL was not part of the Harman target study I'm told, so a Harman specified reference SPL does not exist.

BTW, no matter what SPL I'd have chosen as reference, the resulting +40dB tonality would've remained largely the same:
View attachment 248445

84dB for 1kHz is my typical listening level last time I checked (frequency sweep graph underneath), that's for a 0dB sine sweep, so the averages will be lower, I'm not sure how low, I measured some tracks on my miniDSP EARS but don't have time to find the files right now. 88dB for 1kHz is about the maximum loudness I listen at (0dB sine sweep).

I can't even imagine cranking it up to 100dB for 1kHz. I still have reservations about your earlier graph, it does seem misleading to me.

 

[solderdude]

Forget the tones and equal loudness contours.
Do your experiments with real music and known SPL (you know how to determine that)
Consider that music spectrum is not 'white noise' type which basically is what equal loudness contours is about.
Subbass does really lift a bit at higher levels (use your HD600) but you will need to reach really (and for you uncomfortable) loud levels to get a somewhat similar-ish tonal balance feel as you would at your preferred listening level with Harman EQ applied.

Amplifiers such as the L70 (and many others that can supply a similar voltage with low THD) can get you there with the HD600. It needs to be 'clean' power though and don't do this for longer than a few seconds of sheer 'enjoyment of oodles of power'.
The Sennheisers will already be distorting a lot in the bass so you don't want clipping or extra 'tube amp percentage' added to that of the headphone.

 

[Chagall]

Does anyone know what code r3 means? Couldn't find error codes in the manual.

 

[solderdude]

If you own an L70 and get error codes I would suggest to contact Topping support or PM @JohnYang1997.
It may well be a reason to get your L70 replaced or at least checked (could also be the error detection itself doing something wrong while the amp part is O.K.)

 

[Chagall]

If you own an L70 and get error codes I would suggest to contact Topping support or PM @JohnYang1997.
It may well be a reason to get your L70 replaced or at least checked (could also be the error detection itself doing something wrong while the amp part is O.K.)

Yepp, I've contacted Topping support. Waiting on their reply.

L70 was in standby and I just turned it on with the remote. E70 was already on and receiving USB signal (connected with xlr cable).
Amp works, but won't be using it until I find out what the code means.

 

[SYJ]

Another good product from Topping. no surprise here but I get lost in their numerous series. They measure all very well, some specs maybe slightly different (output impedance, power output) but all in all it's very diificult to choose.

I respect this brand, like Matrix, SMSL, Gustard, but all these chinese makers are lacking of coherence in their deveoppment, how to choose inside their series ?

For example : is a 90 series combo (Dac+ headphone/pream) eventually superior to a 70 series combo ( i mean : is there a real sonic advantage) considering the much higher price tag of the first one ?

I didn't really do the ABX blind test, but I have A90, A30Pro, and L30 (also A90D and the latest L70). They sound petty similar, however, IMHO, the A90 sounds best, followed by A30Pro. L30 is still very good, esp. for the money spent, however, if your budget can reach higher, I think A90 series is worth it. I don't know how to describe it in English, but I know that there are some things better. BTW, I mostly listen to Classical and Jazz.

 

[SYJ]

The hardest part of buying something from Topping is deciding which excellent performer you prefer. This unit for example looks very close to the A90D in its performance envelope, but the latter is almost twice as expensive. Still, I'm probably going to replace my THX AAA 789 next year, and I think I'm going to go for the A90D. The decision is strictly based on cosmetics. The silver A90D just seems like a piece of high tech art to me, and it's triggered my lust factor. But I'm certain in a double blind test at any conceivable volume level the L70 could drive any headphone I have or plan to acquire and would be indistinguishable from its more expensive sibling. But sometimes a splurge may be in order.

I have Pre90 (in fact 2 units), A90D, and L70. Pre90 and A90D volume pot is not that good; if you quickly turn it, it can go opposite way. L70 volume pot solves this problem.
At first I thought that just A90D, but then I tested Pre90. The same problem. Anyway, without any problem if you use the remote control.