$30K Budget - On the quest for my "end game" speaker

[srrxr71]

8361 + w371 still on the short list, I think they would have sufficient SPL for my use case, but will need to audition.

If not I wonder about 8361 + w371 + Trinnov ST2 Pro + 2 mega subs. If you have the space you may need it.

 

[MKR]

If not I wonder about 8361 + w371 + Trinnov ST2 Pro + 2 mega subs. If you have the space you may need it.

Yes, I would plan to add subs in this case. But, why would one need Trinnov if you have GLM?

 

[srrxr71]

Yes, I would plan to add subs in this case. But, why would one need Trinnov if you have GLM?

Well according to what I was told once you place w371 into the system there is no option to phase align additional GLM subs.

If you want bass coming from behind you also then you need more subs. So why not kill a few birds with one stone?

Get the advanced room correction of Trinnov, use the additional 2 channels of the ST2 Pro to add 2 more subs. Also buy much capable and cost effective subs than the very expensive 7380 or 7382.


My method would be to let GLM handle the 8361 + w371 combo and integration.

Then let Trinnov handle everything as a system and do its thing. You will also have control over what it does as I understand it. Maybe you will find adding a house curve is easier in it than GLM. It certainly has some added functionality and tuning options.

Then if and when I need more bass I’ll add those via Trinnov.

I doubt it though. I’m already getting some neighborhood whispers from my 8361 + 7360. Of course 36 hours of binge listening can do that.

 

[MKR]

Well according to what I was told once you place w371 into the system there is no option to phase align additional GLM subs.

If you want bass coming from behind you also then you need more subs. So why not kill a few birds with one stone?

Get the advanced room correction of Trinnov, use the additional 2 channels of the ST2 Pro to add 2 more subs. Also buy much capable and cost effective subs than the very expensive 7380 or 7382.

Ah, ok, got it. Still learning about the GLM system. This is getting complicated (and expensive!)

Actually, I am starting to move away from the active speaker approach for various reasons. Not fully ruled out yet, but likely I will stay passive in the end.

Thanks as always @srrxr71 for your advice!

 

[srrxr71]

Ah, ok, got it. Still learning about the GLM system. This is getting complicated (and expensive!)

Actually, I am starting to move away from the active speaker approach for various reasons. Not fully ruled out yet, but likely I will stay passive in the end.

Thanks as always @srrxr71 for your advice!

I would check out the experience center in Natick, MA before spending anything personally.

What’s $500 airfare + $150 hotel when you’re budgeting for end game? Could save you a lot in the long term.

For me personally I don’t mind investing in this system with Trinnov etc because it’s end game to me. Maybe i’m ignorant and there is something better for me. However even if someone were to demo this “something better” in my own room I bet it wouldn’t be much of a difference and I would not have any regrets.

However who knows? These already stretched my imagination about how good speakers can sound. Maybe something else can sound a lot better? I’d have to ask which planet i’m on in that case. My current imagination cannot even handle what I’m hearing now.

Maybe Trinnov + anything you choose (with extensive audition) would be that system which causes you to question if you are still on planet earth.

So many ways to skin the cat. Just don’t have a critical audition too late though.

A trip to LA is really the only way plus Natick unless someone will set up 8361 + w371 for you in LA.

They have multiple dealers in multiple brands. In fact I don’t even think there is a Trinnov dealer outside LA yet.

So one of the dealers (westlake as I recall) has a studio arm with 5-6 studios.

“Thriller” was recorded in studio A. Studio D was built for Quincy Jones. They deal in many brands. Probably they can have something set up for you.

 

[MKR]

I would check out the experience center in Natick, MA before spending anything personally.

What’s $500 airfare + $150 hotel when you’re budgeting for end game? Could save you a lot in the long term.

For me personally I don’t mind investing in this system with Trinnov etc because it’s end game to me. Maybe i’m ignorant and there is something better for me. However even if someone were to demo this “something better” in my own room I bet it wouldn’t be much of a difference and I would not have any regrets.

However who knows? These already stretched my imagination about how good speakers can sound. Maybe something else can sound a lot better? I’d have to ask which planet i’m on in that case. My current imagination cannot even handle what I’m hearing now.

Maybe Trinnov + anything you choose (with extensive audition) would be that system which causes you to question if you are still on planet earth.

So many ways to skin the cat. Just don’t have a critical audition too late though.

A trip to LA is really the only way plus Natick unless someone will set up 8361 + w371 for you in LA.

They have multiple dealers in multiple brands. In fact I don’t even think there is a Trinnov dealer outside LA yet.

So one of the dealers (westlake as I recall) has a studio arm with 5-6 studios.

“Thriller” was recorded in studio A. Studio D was built for Quincy Jones. They deal in many brands. Probably they can have something set up for you.

Fully agreed on the travel for auditions cost, an absolute must when spending this kind of money, no issue for me and in the works. I see it as an ROI and risk mitigation calculation … a trip at least to CA for auditions is in the planning stages. Also working on a trip to CO to visit John at The Screening Room AV.

I must say, as I am thinking about it (due to your great suggestion), that Trinnov + SOA passives (Salon, Blade, Danley Hyperion, JBL 4367, etc) + subs could truly be end game for me (again, as good as the Genelec is, I have no doubt, I do not want to be locked into the amps and DSP of an active solution … I want to have control of my own destiny )

Thanks again, the quest continues!

 

[steve59]

I can't count the number of speakers that were amazing in the store demo that sounded like an AM radio once I got them home. To get significant differences in mid and treble quality took huge like 2-3x$$ on components. It was like all the amps with similar ratings and prices could have come off the same assembly line, but stepping up a tier or 2 often affected the speakers sound by smoothing the highs and revealing a little more from the recording.

I'm sure i'm repeating myself but a $20k pair of speakers could very well sound better with carefully selected components than a $30 k pair dropped into an existing system. This is the main reason I buy used. Maybe Trinnov is the magic wand that brings the room, speakers, and components together, but like using subs I expect it just complicates things more and pushes the music even farther away.

 

[srrxr71]

I can't count the number of speakers that were amazing in the store demo that sounded like an AM radio once I got them home. To get significant differences in mid and treble quality took huge like 2-3x$$ on components. It was like all the amps with similar ratings and prices could have come off the same assembly line, but stepping up a tier or 2 often affected the speakers sound by smoothing the highs and revealing a little more from the recording.

I'm sure i'm repeating myself but a $20k pair of speakers could very well sound better with carefully selected components than a $30 k pair dropped into an existing system. This is the main reason I buy used. Maybe Trinnov is the magic wand that brings the room, speakers, and components together, but like using subs I expect it just complicates things more and pushes the music even farther away.

Yeah on the component selection thing even 15 years ago I realized it’s better to let one designer select it all.

Each drive unit getting an amp tuned to its impedance curve etc.

Each amp handling only what it needs to.

No wastage in crossover.

It’s been good for me even from when I started with NHT M-00 and then to Focal Solo 6be to KEF LS50 W and even with Genelec 8010. Even the Edifiers take advantage of this.

Now if you really don’t want subs your pickings are slim. It comes down to the 3 woofer systems I know about. Genelec w371, Kii BXT and Barefoot $56k system. I’m probably forgetting something.


Otherwise subs are fine when integrated properly. DSP is fine. We are no longer in that “straight wire with gain” era.

DSP is a part of many modern active designs for good reason. So whether it’s GLM or Trinnov it’s all good.

Many top end studios these days use a non DSP monitor system and use Trinnov to make it all work with the room. I’m talking fully treated studios which were designed by an acoustician. Not like my amateur application of panels.

From what i’m hearing it does not push away music. Neither does GLM. Nor does the DSP in KEF actives - rather it creates objectively superior performance compared to the passive version.

Also room treatment isn’t pushing my music away either.

In fact DSP is that one piece that will get you off the speaker amp cable merry go round.

Don’t like something? Try to move things around. Speakers or panels. If that doesn’t work play with the pEQ. Can’t be shipping 100+ lbs things around all the time over these minor upsets. Buying new amps and preamps.

No need to suffer these days like it’s the 1990s still. The game done changed.

 

[MKR]

Yeah on the component selection thing even 15 years ago I realized it’s better to let one designer select it all.

Each drive unit getting an amp tuned to its impedance curve etc.

Each amp handling only what it needs to.

No wastage in crossover.

It’s been good for me even from when I started with NHT M-00 and then to Focal Solo 6be to KEF LS50 W and even with Genelec 8010. Even the Edifiers take advantage of this.

Now if you really don’t want subs your pickings are slim. It comes down to the 3 woofer systems I know about. Genelec w371, Kii BXT and Barefoot $56k system. I’m probably forgetting something.


Otherwise subs are fine when integrated properly. DSP is fine. We are no longer in that “straight wire with gain” era.

DSP is a part of many modern active designs for good reason. So whether it’s GLM or Trinnov it’s all good.

Many top end studios these days use a non DSP monitor system and use Trinnov to make it all work with the room. I’m talking fully treated studios which were designed by an acoustician. Not like my amateur application of panels.

From what i’m hearing it does not push away music. Neither does GLM. Nor does the DSP in KEF actives - rather it creates objectively superior performance compared to the passive version.

Also room treatment isn’t pushing my music away either.

In fact DSP is that one piece that will get you off the speaker amp cable merry go round.

Don’t like something? Try to move things around. Speakers or panels. If that doesn’t work play with the pEQ. Can’t be shipping 100+ lbs things around all the time over these minor upsets. Buying new amps and preamps.

No need to suffer these days like it’s the 1990s still. The game done changed.

Well said … and no issue at all with subs, I had fully planned on this, especially as this will be a dual use music/HT system

On the amp matching topic, I do have some concerns on the Salon2 in that aspect related to the low sensitivity. Not sure my current amp (Simaudio W5, along with matching P5 preamp, both excellent designs … https://www.stereophile.com/solidpreamps/167/index.html) will be sufficient to drive the Salon2 to their fully glory. Seems these things need a “nuclear power station” to bring out the best sonics. So then I am likely needing a new amp also, which was not in the original plan. Decisions, decisions, …

 

[MattHooper]

I can't count the number of speakers that were amazing in the store demo that sounded like an AM radio once I got them home.

That sounds like a bummer!

I haven’t had that experience. Over many years of auditioning speakers in stores none have ever sounded significantly different in my home.

 

[symphara]

That sounds like a bummer!

I haven’t had that experience. Over many years of auditioning speakers in stores none have ever sounded significantly different in my home.

Same here. Bass changes, somewhat. The rest not so much. Also, everything sounds better at home (for me, at least)!

@MKR your quest has moved me too. I’m really trying to get an audition for the Amphion Krypton 3, I have the Heliums and they are amazing, I heard the Argons, I am told that the Kryptons are true end-game and I can actually buy them for a decent price. Just need an audition.

 

[bo_knows]

Fully agreed on the travel for auditions cost, an absolute must when spending this kind of money, no issue for me and in the works. I see it as an ROI and risk mitigation calculation … a trip at least to CA for auditions is in the planning stages. Also working on a trip to CO to visit John at The Screening Room AV.

I must say, as I am thinking about it (due to your great suggestion), that Trinnov + SOA passives (Salon, Blade, Danley Hyperion, JBL 4367, etc) + subs could truly be end game for me (again, as good as the Genelec is, I have no doubt, I do not want to be locked into the amps and DSP of an active solution … I want to have control of my own destiny )

Thanks again, the quest continues!

Just stopped at the Nebraska Furniture Mart Store in Colony TX to hear Revel Salons 2 again and found them pushed out from the high-end audio to the mainstream electronics area. The salesperson told me that they were discontinued and just clearing what was left. I guess this is the end of the era for these audio titans.
Focal took the front stage now...

 

[Doodski]

Just stopped at the Nebraska Furniture Mart Store in Colony TX to hear Revel Salons 2 again and found them pushed out from the high-end audio to the mainstream electronics area. The salesperson told me that they were discontinued and just clearing what was left. I guess this is the end of the era for these audio titans.
Focal took the front stage now...

USD$7999.95 is a good deal. Is there something wrong with them other than being discontinued?

 

[bo_knows]

USD$7999.95 is a good deal. Is there something wrong with them other than being discontinued?

Doodski, I honestly don't know. They were demo boxes and I listened to them a year or more ago.

I would think they perform as new but there were some small scuff marks on them. If I had my heart set on Salon 2, I would probably ask for more discount.

 

[Doodski]

Doodski, I honestly don't know. They were demo boxes and I listened to them a year or more ago.

I would think they perform as new but there were some small scuff marks on them. If I had my heart set on Salon 2, I would probably ask for more discount.

Well. $8K is a lotta K so you better be sure before pulling the trigger on a set of non-returnable speakers.

 

[Bugal1998]

@MKR

If you make it to the east coast, I'm less than an hour from the Philadelphia Airport, and 20 minutes from Amtrak.

I would be open to letting you spend quality time in my professionally designed/fully treated room with JBL M2s, Trinnov, quad subs (plus a quad 24" driver infrasonic sub) if that would be of interest to you.

It's my chosen version of "end game" .

 

[MKR]

Just stopped at the Nebraska Furniture Mart Store in Colony TX to hear Revel Salons 2 again and found them pushed out from the high-end audio to the mainstream electronics area. The salesperson told me that they were discontinued and just clearing what was left. I guess this is the end of the era for these audio titans.
Focal took the front stage now...

@bo_knows Did you see my previous post earlier in this thread? That sales person doesn’t know what he is talking about. I mean, maybe discontinued for this furniture store, but not in general. So … after all that, did you even get to audition them?

From my previous post …

OK y'all, as promised, reporting back on the status of the Salon2 ... Actually spoke with one of the Harman Luxury US regional reps yesterday, below are the FACTS ...

• The entire Ultima series has been discontinued, EXCEPT the Salon2 which is still a current model and in production
• Salon2 margin is very minimal (not sustainable is how I read that) as Revel has not raised the price to keep up w/production costs over the years ***
• The reps sense is the Salon2 will in fact be discontinued sometime in the next 12 months for good
• Revel just produced and received into their warehouse a small run of Salon2 in black and mahogany, only ~14 of each
• In addition, there are more units coming mid-December. These will be new A stock units with full warranty and support.
• If you always wanted a pair of these, I recommend placing your order ASAP, as there are not that many coming

*** Given it is still such a world class loudspeaker, I wonder why Harman does not "refresh" and raise the price a bit to maintain profitability. Maybe that is the purpose of the 328Be, but from my research, it does not exceed or even equal the Salon2 performance.

Note I also asked about service/warranty support in the future (after it has been discontinued) and the response was that "drivers/parts will be available for at least 5 years. Maybe longer for the Salon2. We still have drivers for the Salon 1"

 

[bo_knows]

Well. $8K is a lotta K so you better be sure before pulling the trigger on a set of non-returnable speakers.

I'm no longer in the market for front speakers, set probably for a long time.

 

[MKR]

Same here. Bass changes, somewhat. The rest not so much. Also, everything sounds better at home (for me, at least)!

@MKR your quest has moved me too. I’m really trying to get an audition for the Amphion Krypton 3, I have the Heliums and they are amazing, I heard the Argons, I am told that the Kryptons are true end-game and I can actually buy them for a decent price. Just need an audition.

@symphara Glad to hear my insanity is inspiring others

I have researched the Amphion Krypton extensively and while I am sure it is a decent speaker, compared to others on my list, not end game for ME. But it could be for you! Hope you are able to find them to audition! Please keep us posted on your adventures

 

[bo_knows]

@bo_knows Did you see my previous post earlier in this thread? That sales person doesn’t know what he is talking about. I mean, maybe discontinued for this furniture store, but not in general. So … after all that, did you even get to audition them?

From my previous post …

OK y'all, as promised, reporting back on the status of the Salon2 ... Actually spoke with one of the Harman Luxury US regional reps yesterday, below are the FACTS ...

• The entire Ultima series has been discontinued, EXCEPT the Salon2 which is still a current model and in production
• Salon2 margin is very minimal (not sustainable is how I read that) as Revel has not raised the price to keep up w/production costs over the years ***
• The reps sense is the Salon2 will in fact be discontinued sometime in the next 12 months for good
• Revel just produced and received into their warehouse a small run of Salon2 in black and mahogany, only ~14 of each
• In addition, there are more units coming mid-December. These will be new A stock units with full warranty and support.
• If you always wanted a pair of these, I recommend placing your order ASAP, as there are not that many coming

*** Given it is still such a world class loudspeaker, I wonder why Harman does not "refresh" and raise the price a bit to maintain profitability. Maybe that is the purpose of the 328Be, but from my research, it does not exceed or even equal the Salon2 performance.

Note I also asked about service/warranty support in the future (after it has been discontinued) and the response was that "drivers/parts will be available for at least 5 years. Maybe longer for the Salon2. We still have drivers for the Salon 1"

Yeah, I read all your posts, not sure why I typed that insinuating that it may be the end. This particular store is trying to get rid of its Salon 2 inventory.