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Hifiman Sundara Review (headphone)

Jimbob54

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Yes that's what I am using:

View attachment 245780



But I am not sure about what you mean by peak and shelf. Is there something to do in addition to the above?
You've used the 31 band geq when you have a PEQ (parametric) eq function. You should have applied the 3 band one, (says for equalizer apo), one of which is a low shelf filter, two are peaks. All those you've set are peaks best as I can tell. See the little peak oco under the frequency on each bar?
 

antanast

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You've used the 31 band geq when you have a PEQ (parametric) eq function. You should have applied the 3 band one, (says for equalizer apo), one of which is a low shelf filter, two are peaks. All those you've set are peaks best as I can tell. See the little peak oco under the frequency on each bar?
Like this right?

1669325856315.png
 

Jimbob54

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For some reason this profile "sounds" better to my ears - I dont have the Dekoni Earpads (unlses they come stock).

View attachment 245897
Whatever works for you. Thats the beauty of software eq- easy to play around and learn what you like without harming anything.
 

Georgeadv

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How can i calculate how much power would i need to run these at 94 db with amirs eq pre gain?
 

Robbo99999

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How can i calculate how much power would i need to run these at 94 db with amirs eq pre gain?
You can use the following link for example:
I plugged in Amirs measured 40 ohm. He had 318mv for 94dB so I kept changing the dB/V value until it registered around 318mv being used (well 350mv is as accurate as that website would go with it) - which gives a headphone sensitivity of 104dB/V:
Sundara Sensitivity.jpg
Amir uses an 8dB boost in the bass, so let's say you need a -8dB negative preamp to cover that which effectively reduces the sensitivity of the headphones by 8dB, which means the headphone goes from 104dB/V to 96dB/V. So then we plug in 96dB/V into the calculator and see what we need to reach 94dB desired loudness:
Sundara Sensitivity with 8dB Negative Preamp.jpg

So you need around 0.8V and 16mw to drive the Sundara to 94dB when using a -8dB Negative Preamp. This is based on the dB at 425Hz though (which is the point Amir measures at for sensitivity), but for the Sundara that's very close to the same value at 1kHz, which is the point that headphones are normally measured for sensitivity in manufacturer specs, so in this case there'd be pretty much the same.
 

Georgeadv

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You can use the following link for example:
I plugged in Amirs measured 40 ohm. He had 318mv for 94dB so I kept changing the dB/V value until it registered around 318mv being used (well 350mv is as accurate as that website would go with it) - which gives a headphone sensitivity of 104dB/V:
View attachment 246180
Amir uses an 8dB boost in the bass, so let's say you need a -8dB negative preamp to cover that which effectively reduces the sensitivity of the headphones by 8dB, which means the headphone goes from 104dB/V to 96dB/V. So then we plug in 96dB/V into the calculator and see what we need to reach 94dB desired loudness:
View attachment 246187
So you need around 0.8V and 16mw to drive the Sundara to 94dB when using a -8dB Negative Preamp. This is based on the dB at 425Hz though (which is the point Amir measures at for sensitivity), but for the Sundara that's very close to the same value at 1kHz, which is the point that headphones are normally measured for sensitivity in manufacturer specs, so in this case there'd be pretty much the same.
Thanks man

But how come the the mv we need is less than what amir measured without the eq?
 

solderdude

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How can i calculate how much power would i need to run these at 94 db with amirs eq pre gain?

94dB peak in the low bass, mids or do you mean 94dB 'average' in 'music' ?
There is a huge difference in needed voltage (power).
94dB SPL in the mids requires 0.318V (2.5mW)
94dB SPL in the low bass when EQ'ed to Harman requires 1V (25mW)
94dBA average with music and Harman EQ requires around 6V (1W)
 

Georgeadv

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94dB peak in the low bass, mids or do you mean 94dB 'average' in 'music' ?
There is a huge difference in needed voltage (power).
94dB SPL in the mids requires 0.318V (2.5mW)
94dB SPL in the low bass when EQ'ed to Harman requires 1V (25mW)
94dBA average with music and Harman EQ requires around 6V (1W)
I meant for general music
The power I would need to do amirs eq while listening at 94db average

At what frequency does amir test?
 

solderdude

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I meant for general music
The power I would need to do amirs eq while listening at 94db average

Around 1W max. (in 40ohm) when EQing to Harman.
94dB average is an almost uncomfortable loud level, with Harman EQ you could be reaching 110dB peaks and to reach 110dB peaks at 20Hz you need 6V.
It also depends largely on the recording so it could be anything between 2V and 10V in practice.

At what frequency does amir test?
Amir determines the sensitivity at 94dB at 425Hz (I stand corrected) for the left channel.
He measures at 94, 104 and 114dB SPL.
 
Last edited:

Robbo99999

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Thanks man

But how come the the mv we need is less than what amir measured without the eq?
You were probably looking at the mw rather than mv (as Jimbob replied to you). Solderdude also has valid points re whether you meant peak or average listening levels - what we've (I've) been calculating is peak RMS values. If it's any indicator though, I generally have my headphones set to be around 86dB or less peak RMS level - which is obviously 8dB less than the 94dB we did the calculations for. So for most people that will probably be loud enough for most modern "pop" music that's not recorded at low levels.
 

Zabizabo

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Hi everybody,

For the Black Friday, I got the opportunity to buy the Sundara at a great price. I'm waiting now for it :). I was tired of my too bassy and too warm Meze 99 Classics.

I'm wondering now if my DAP, iBasso DX170, has enough power to drive the Sundara. Has somebody tried this association (or at least with the iBasso DX160)?

Thanks in advance for your answer and have a good day.
 

antanast

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What do you guys think of the dekoni heepskin pads? Thinking of replacing the stock pads.
 

staticV3

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I'm wondering now if my DAP, iBasso DX170, has enough power to drive the Sundara.
According to measurements from RAA, the DX170 can output 2.5Vrms at 39Ω load before clipping, via the 4.4mm Bal output:
Screenshot_20221128-164110_Chrome.png

That's enough to drive the Sudara 2020 to 112dB SPL Peak.
For reference, 110dB is Fairly loud, 115dB is Very loud.
 

Ashimaru

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This guy measured Sundara using Gras 45CA like Amir. It can be seen that it is the latest version of Sundara (brown box). However, the measurement results look like the 2018 Sundara version than 2020 revision pads version or Amir measurement. Does Sundara have another revision again in 2022?
 

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