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Topping E70 Stereo DAC Review

Rate this DAC:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 8 2.1%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 8 2.1%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 45 11.9%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 317 83.9%

  • Total voters
    378

escalibur

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beefkabob

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Fortunately the tests are already here,thanks to @pkane 's generosity.
Everyone is welcome to the thread (it's fun!) to test,help,propose new features (I'm one of them and fortunately people there bear with my newbieness).
I can only measure 2-3 dacs which I have in hand,but the value of it is that any friend with a decent ADC can test it by it's own and get a rough idea.

As an example of the above:




My old interface's SINAD at 1Khz.



That's the Multitone vs level.As we can see in the specific DAC and under the conditions of my poor measuring rig the fall is smooth and can be predicted (and it's absolutely repeatable).


As a bonus that's the SINAD at 6.6Khz I was talking about which in many cases it's a worst case scenario).



So don't get me wrong,I'm all for measurements and I admire Amir's effort to clean things up.I just try to dig a little more into real-life performance and thankfully any friend can do too,Multitone analyzer is still free and one doesn't have to get an AP to get a rough idea of it's gear.
Cool. Now you have to find a DAC where it performs one way according to Amir's tests and another way according to your additional tests. In other words, you have to prove value now if you want this adopted.
 

Sokel

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Cool. Now you have to find a DAC where it performs one way according to Amir's tests and another way according to your additional tests. In other words, you have to prove value now if you want this adopted.
I'll do it in another thread so this one will stay on topic.
 
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OnlyRealWolf

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Is there any reason beyond the volume control and Bluetooth to upgrade from an E50 to this model?

I know the internal DAC chip on this model is different (9028Pro E70 vs 9068AS E50) but besides that, is there a reason to switch to the higher model?
 

staticV3

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Is there any reason beyond the volume control and Bluetooth to upgrade from an E50 to this model?
If you use it as signal generator in a lab environment, then maybe. 6dB lower noise, no ESS hump, lower crosstalk, lower distortion.
If you use it to listen to music, then absolutely not as the E50 is audibly perfect already.
 

Grooved

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Fair enough. I think the reason for the reaction to your post, is we get so many (people trolling) here, setting up the straw man that ASR is only interested in SINAD. ASR is a single measurement site etc.

You stating "only one measurement is bad", sounds like it is doing the same without a clear statement that you recognise that the measurements provided are not that.
I did write "Measurement is good, and better, measurementS are great because if it's based on one measurement only, you can be wrong" which, in my mind was clear enough to at least not mean "only one measurement is bad".
If I said that, it was just because someone said above my post "measurement" in singular, and to explain to potential new user that he have to look at all the numbers provided, but it was not clear enough.
I then admit in the following post that it has been clear enough, and what is sure is that I totally forgot that some user comes sometimes just for trolling and that their main "argument" is you can rely on a measurement.
At least, we're clearing the miscommunication ;)

I do think we need to be more precise and thoughtful in our comments.
It really took me too long to figure out what you were saying here. There are often multiple trolls on just about every review thread, so sentences like you wrote are difficult to filter for your intended meaning.
I was happy to get clarity on what you meant. ASR is about the ONLY place where objective discussions of audio reproduction happen, and it turns out there are true flat-earth crazies who come here to act out their insecurities. Recognize that your posts are going to be easily confused with this chaos unless you are clear on your point.
It's OK, and I know that it would be better to not have to read two or three times a post to be sure to understand the meaning.
The part that I didn't like is that in my second post, I said that my first post was not clear enough and explained it, but then got again a quote of one line in my first post.
After having explained it, I didn't feel the need to edit the first post, but I should have done it ASAP
What surprised me is that usually, someone trolling here doesn't have 500 posts and 300 likes, and that a quick check on my profile could show that I made measurements on Multitone and tried to help on its development, and so that it was impossible that I was trolling.
I didn't take the time the read again my post, and people didn't time to check or ask before answering based on their idea -> miscommunication
Like I said, it would not happen in real life communication, so I agree that better check again what we're about to post
 
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poxymoron

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As far as Ldac is concerned: I listen through it almost every day and can savely say that through Genelec 8030's at 1 meter the difference between streaming losslessly and Ldac is negligable, or non-existend.

What I'm saying is that I'd probably fail on a double blind test or have a very hard time.
Not a whole lot different for me. Differences between LDAC and USB on my miniDSP Flex are inaudible to me.
 

poxymoron

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I use bluetooth in the kitchen with a Bose mini. Its a convenient way to listen with subquality gear. Its ok for non critical listening while doing other things like cooking.

However , bluetooth doesnt belong in a really good listening environment with good listening gear, and active listening .

Its as bad as Spotify, and if you are combining spotify with bluetooth you get a VERY bad sound result .

I wish Amirm could do a test with combining 256 kBit mp3 with bluetooth and then show the real SINAD of that.
I use LDAC from my phone to my Shure Aonic 50 headphones. I also use my Helm Bolt DAC from the same phone to the same headphones and I notice no difference in sound quality, apart from the extra power I get from the Helm Bolt. However, in my car the Helm Bolt is superior to the car's SBC Bluetooth. The SBC Bluetooth distorts at much lower volumes, even more so when I apply some EQ. Have I done any controlled blind tests? No I have not, but you don't need controlled blind tests to hear distortion.
There's not a whole lot wrong with LDAC when properly implemented. My two cents.
 

OnlyRealWolf

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If you use it as signal generator in a lab environment, then maybe. 6dB lower noise, no ESS hump, lower crosstalk, lower distortion.
If you use it to listen to music, then absolutely not as the E50 is audibly perfect already.
Thanks, that’s exactly what I was thinking already, that for my use there isn’t a good reason to move beyond the e50.
 

bede

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Probabaly because USB-B is ultra-reliable.

USB-C on the other hand can be a complete headache.

I would take a USB-B connector on a DAC each and every time (plenty of bandwidth).
Some of these Chinese manfacturers certainly seem to struggle with their USB type C implementations, which is a pity. Agree that B maximises compatibility.

I've been wondering about USB-C bus powered DACs – are they potentially problematic from an earthing perspective? Lots of laptop power supplies (and indeed my screen with built in USB C charging) are not earthed and seem liable to create ground loops with earthed output equipment. Is this why Topping avoids bus power? Seems to work for FocusRite et al?
 
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DualTriode

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Hello All,

I just purchased one of these things yesterday. I can watch the ups tracking information online.

I will be using a Cambridge Audio CD as a transport, this thing and a LA90 power amplifier.

Seems like rock and roll to me as I spin on my indoor bike. It rains a lot here in the state of Jefferson. I roll up the garage door and watch it rain as I spin.

I purchased this DAC because of the High SINAD plus the remote control. The bluetooth will also get a test drive.

My cars' upgraded Harman auto audio system also has bluetooth. I have taken up carrying tunes around on a LG cellphone dedicated to tunes only. I like the convivence. I intend to play some 124 beats per minuet disco while I am on the Schwinn.

Thanks DT

 
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Robbo99999

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Hello All,

I just purchased one of these things yesterday. I can watch the ups tracking information online.

I will be using a Cambridge Audio CD as a transport, this thing and a LA90 power amplifier.

Seems like rock and roll to me as I spin on my indoor bike. It rains a lot here in the state of Jefferson. I roll up the garage door and watch it rain as I spin.

I purchased this DAC because of the High SINAD plus the remote control. The bluetooth will also get a test drive.

My cars' upgraded Harman auto audio system also has bluetooth. I have taken up carrying tunes around on a LG cellphone dedicated to tunes only. I like the convivence. I intend to play some 124 beats per minuet disco while I am on the Schwinn.

Thanks DT

Alrighty then!
 

Laserjock

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getting tired of the new dac's and spec's. I love to listen to my music instead of reading charts and measurements........how 'bout you?.
It's nice to have a top of the charts dac. But in the end the only thing that counts is the end result , meaning : how does it sound?.

have a nice day
TAF
 

Tangband

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I use LDAC from my phone to my Shure Aonic 50 headphones. I also use my Helm Bolt DAC from the same phone to the same headphones and I notice no difference in sound quality, apart from the extra power I get from the Helm Bolt. However, in my car the Helm Bolt is superior to the car's SBC Bluetooth. The SBC Bluetooth distorts at much lower volumes, even more so when I apply some EQ. Have I done any controlled blind tests? No I have not, but you don't need controlled blind tests to hear distortion.
There's not a whole lot wrong with LDAC when properly implemented. My two cents.
Its the combined LDAC/bluetooth and mp3 thats really bad. Each of those techniques uses the ears masking effect, but If you use them together, the faults will be much worse than twice as bad .

Example :

-1 -1 = -3

There is no need at all at year 2022 to use lossy codecs and lossy transmission. For casual listening on toy-speakers in the kitchen it might be ok, but not more than that. Noone should use streaming services thats lossy.
 

Killingbeans

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Example :

-1 -1 = -3

That's not really an example...

An example would be: "Here's measurements showing the performance difference in a DAC playing FLAC/USB, FLAC/LDAC, MP3/USB and MP3/LDAC. And here's why it could possibly be audible."

The calculation above tells me nothing but prejudice and/or ill-founded fear.
 

Atanasi

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That's not really an example...

An example would be: "Here's measurements showing the performance difference in a DAC playing FLAC/USB, FLAC/LDAC, MP3/USB and MP3/LDAC. And here's why it could possibly be audible."

That calculation above tells me nothing but prejudice and/or ill-founded fear.
The listening tests with lossy codecs are also performed encoding an already lossy signal. At least AAC has been demonstrated to be transparent in most cases with some repeated encoding.
 
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