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The importance of low bass in music

Waxx

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A new study on the McMaster University showed that very low bass make people engage with music more:

"To find out how different aspects of music influence the body, researchers turned a live electronic music concert into a lab study. By introducing levels of bass over speakers that were too low to hear and monitoring the crowd's movements, scientists found that people danced 11.8 percent more when the very low frequency bass was present. The study appears November 7 in the journal Current Biology.

"I'm trained as a drummer, and most of my research career has been focused on the rhythmic aspects of music and how they make us move," says first author Daniel Cameron, a neuroscientist from McMaster University. "Music is a biological curiosity -- it doesn't reproduce us, it doesn't feed us, and it doesn't shelter us, so why do humans like it and why do they like to move to it?"

Cameron conducts research at the McMaster LIVELab, which connects science with live performance in a unique research theater. It is equipped with 3D motion capture, a Meyer sound system that can replicate various concert environments, and enhanced speakers that can produce extremely low frequencies, so low they were undetectable to the human ear.

For the Current Biology study, Cameron and colleagues recruited participants attending a LIVELab concert for electronic musical duo Orphx. The concertgoers were equipped with motion-sensing headbands to monitor their dance moves. Additionally, they were asked to fill out survey forms before and after the event. These forms were used to ensure the sound was undetectable, measure concert enjoyment, and examine how the music felt physically.

Throughout the 45-minute concert, the researchers manipulated the very-low bass-playing speakers, turning them on and off every two minutes. They found the amount of movement was 12 percent greater when the speakers were on.

"The musicians were enthusiastic to participate because of their interest in this idea that bass can change how the music is experienced in a way that impacts movement," says Cameron. "The study had high ecological validity, as this was a real musical and dance experience for people at a real live show."
The feeling of vibration through touch and the interactions between the inner ear and the brain have close links to the motor system. The researchers speculate these physical processes are at work in the neurological connection between music and movement. This anatomy can pick up on low frequencies and can affect the perception of "groove," spontaneous movement, and rhythm perception.

"Very low frequencies may also affect vestibular sensitivity, adding to people's experience of movement. Nailing down the brain mechanisms involved will require looking the effects of low frequencies on the vestibular, tactile, and auditory pathways," says Cameron."


source: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/11/221107114445.htm
extra info: https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(22)01535-4?
 

Acerun

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I feel way better about my $3000 investment in subwoofers now. What's actually an epiphany is that for the most part I don't hear them... But so much more content or maybe I'm just more aware of it, has very low frequencies. Having dual subs that go to 12 is a pleasure. It's also a really smooth experience because I can keep the subs at quite a low base level. They only show themselves when they have to.
 

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There's another aspect to this that is rarely mentioned, and that is the ability of subs to overcome room issues that cannot be corrected any other way. Specifically, I have a 2 channel setup in a bedroom (Revel 226be and a pair of JLA e112 subs). The left speaker is in a corner location and generates a marked rise in low frequencies.
1668797139791.png

I'm using an Anthem STR preamp and even using ARC Genesis the bass remains pronounced and in fact obnoxious on tracks that have a lot of bass content.
When the subwoofers are added to the mix ARC is able to crossover the mains at 80 and send these lower frequencies to the subs which provide a much smoother and linear response, eliminating the problem.

As I've gotten older the "no sub" approach has become more appealing, however, situations like this illustrate the ability of subs to deal with room modes that the mains, even with EQ, cannot solve.
 

fpitas

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There's another aspect to this that is rarely mentioned, and that is the ability of subs to overcome room issues that cannot be corrected any other way. Specifically, I have a 2 channel setup in a bedroom (Revel 226be and a pair of JLA e112 subs). The left speaker is in a corner location and generates a marked rise in low frequencies.
View attachment 244258
I'm using an Anthem STR preamp and even using ARC Genesis the bass remains pronounced and in fact obnoxious on tracks that have a lot of bass content.
When the subwoofers are added to the mix ARC is able to crossover the mains at 80 and send these lower frequencies to the subs which provide a much smoother and linear response, eliminating the problem.

As I've gotten older the "no sub" approach has become more appealing, however, situations like this illustrate the ability of subs to deal with room modes that the mains, even with EQ, cannot solve.
It does indeed get mentioned here, usually in connection with multiple sub approaches.
 

Vacceo

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Not surprised at all. Durkheim wrote about this in Elementary Forms of Religious Life more than a century ago.

That's why subwoofers should be part of the declaration of human rights.
 

tuga

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Not surprised at all. Durkheim wrote about this in Elementary Forms of Religious Life more than a century ago.

That's why subwoofers should be part of the declaration of human rights.

 

DVDdoug

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Throughout the 45-minute concert, the researchers manipulated the very-low bass-playing speakers, turning them on and off every two minutes. They found the amount of movement was 12 percent greater when the speakers were on.
12% doesn't seem like that much difference. And you know that's an average... It wasn't 12% every 2 minutes.

These forms were used to ensure the sound was undetectable, measure concert enjoyment, and examine how the music felt physically.
Undetectable? I'm highly skeptical of subliminal effects. The good thing is... You don't need much of a subwoofer to get undetectable amounts of bass! :p

Yeah... I'd rather dance-to or listen-to music with some bass. But I have a few pop recordings (maybe Madonna?) where (to me) the bass seems over-done so I won't say more bass is always better. (I do have a pair of 15-inch subs and I do appreciate plenty of bass when the sound is turned-up and everything is "in balance".

It's also interesting that strong bass is a modern phenomenon, almost non-existent before amplification and the introduction of the electric bass guitar, except for the bass drum.
 
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Vacceo

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12% doesn't seem like that much difference. And you know that's an average... It wasn't 12% every 2 minutes.

Undetectable? I'm highly skeptical of subliminal effects. The good thing is... You don't need much of a subwoofer to get undetectable amounts of bass! :p

Yeah... I'd rather dance-to or listen-to music with some bass. But I have a few pop recordings (maybe Madonna?) where (to me) the bass seems over-done so I won't say more bass is always better.

It's also interesting that strong bass is a modern phenomenon, almost non-existent before amplification and the introduction of the electric bass guitar, except for the bass drum.
Organs are among the few instruments that produce infrasonics. Luckily, electronics delivered us the ultimate blessing from the Audio Gods.
 

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It does indeed get mentioned here, usually in connection with multiple sub approaches.
I've often read discussions of how multiple subwoofers can be used to control peaks and nulls, but I don't recall a thread where subwoofers were used to correct problems with the main speakers that could not be resolved by using room correction software. If you know of such a thread please advise, it would be an interesting read.
 

fpitas

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I've often read discussions of how multiple subwoofers can be used to control peaks and nulls, but I don't recall a thread where subwoofers were used to correct problems with the main speakers that could not be resolved by using room correction software. If you know of such a thread please advise, it would be an interesting read.
I don't do that approach myself, but there's a Harman paper somewhere describing it. I'll see if I can find a thread here.

Here's the paper: https://www.harman.com/documents/multsubs_0.pdf

 
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Acerun

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12% doesn't seem like that much difference. And you know that's an average... It wasn't 12% every 2 minutes.


Undetectable? I'm highly skeptical of subliminal effects. The good thing is... You don't need much of a subwoofer to get undetectable amounts of bass! :p

Yeah... I'd rather dance-to or listen-to music with some bass. But I have a few pop recordings (maybe Madonna?) where (to me) the bass seems over-done so I won't say more bass is always better. (I do have a pair of 15-inch subs and I do appreciate plenty of bass when the sound is turned-up and everything is "in balance".

It's also interesting that strong bass is a modern phenomenon, almost non-existent before amplification and the introduction of the electric bass guitar, except for the bass drum.
I'm fascinated by it. Just watching normal TV channels and commercials... All are incorporating modern sub-bass frequencies. Having the dual subs set at the right levels really enhances the experience.
 

tuga

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The VLF sound system used in this study peaked at 20Hz and again at 30Hz in this particular mic position, the "regular" system roll-off steeply below 40Hz.
Is this a joke?

But I would agree that with the VLF system on there's a lot more jitter...or is that group-delay?

gr1.jpg
 
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Vacceo

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I'm fascinated by it. Just watching normal TV channels and commercials... All are incorporating modern sub-bass frequencies. Having the dual subs set at the right levels really enhances the experience.
Since the 80's at least horror films have done it as almost a genre standard. I remember it from Hellraiser, but chances are it was done before a lot.
 
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Waxx

Waxx

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For me it's old new actually. As (former) dj specialised in bass heavy music (reggae/dub/jungle) i know the people don't dance to the drums, but to the bass. Cut the bass in your mix and the people stop dancing. It can and is used as a trick to do what is now known as "the drop" in the dj world (removing the bass at the start of a tune, or in a part of the tune and suddenly switch it back on), but in reggae/dub it's done since the early 70's. It creates a heavy reaction of the crowd, that goes wild... It's a trick that always work, in any (dj) genre.
 

tuga

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For me it's old new actually. As (former) dj specialised in bass heavy music (reggae/dub/jungle) i know the people don't dance to the drums, but to the bass. Cut the bass in your mix and the people stop dancing. It can and is used as a trick to do what is now known as "the drop" in the dj world (removing the bass at the start of a tune, or in a part of the tune and suddenly switch it back on), but in reggae/dub it's done since the early 70's. It creates a heavy reaction of the crowd, that goes wild... It's a trick that always work, in any (dj) genre.

What about people who dance to classical, caribbean or traditional music, do they also dance to the (sub-)bass?
Because in many instances there is no sub-bass to speak of.
 
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Waxx

Waxx

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What about people who dance to classical, caribbean or traditional music, do they also dance to the (sub-)bass?
Because in many instances there is no sub-bass to speak of.
I don't know if you see a lot of live concerts, but most classical and at least our folk music has bass. It's not always present in recordings, but it's there live. A contrabass goes low, as low as an electric bass goes and a classical pipe organ goes way lower than any string based bass, or even most synths can. And there are also tuba's and bassoons that play bass parts also in a classica orchestra... Bass does not have to be real low subbass to make people dance, but lower subbass works the best.

In our Belgian folk it's mostly (traditionally) a bombardon (in the US called a Helicon and the orignial of a sousaphone) or a tuba and it's ancestors that gives the bass. Since the 1930's a contrabass is also used a lot in it's place, as it's easier to use. Other folk music is probally similar, certainly in Europe.

And carribean music has bass, even the old mento, nyabinghi and calypso records from the 1940's and 1950's that i have have it, mostly done with a contrabass (standing bass), a tuba or a bombardon or sousaphone. And if there are drums but no bass, the kickdrum (or equivalent) is what the people dance to. Son, bata and cuban rumba orchestra's always have a contrabass in their line up. percussion (drum or others) and contrabass are the base of those orchestra, while the other instruments can be a lot (whatever was availeble probally). In traditional african music they also got bass instruments. A kora (used by the mande and fula people in west africa) can go very low. And you also got dedicated bass instruments like the karindula (Congo/Zambia), the bass molo (Ghana), bass akonting (Senegal/Gambia), ...

And i was actually talking about more modern music, that is played by dj's in clubs, parties and festivals where dances are not traditonal rituals but a personal and free expression on the music played.
 
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