$30K Budget - On the quest for my "end game" speaker

[sarumbear]

Me too Maybe too "raw"?
@sarumbear You wrote the price / sound quality - and the sound quality itself?

brash

[*]self-assertive in a rude, noisy, or overbearing way.
"he was brash, cocky, and arrogant"

[*]having an ostentatious or tasteless appearance.
"the cafe was a brash new building"

 

[Speaker_tweaker]

Why start at all? Is this what ASR has come to now... blokes can't even give a speaker tip (let alone recommend) to an OP without it being shit-canned based on nothing more than assumptions made from eyeballing a single graph?

This is Audio Science Review, where presumably the goal is to use scientific data to make better purchasing choices. In the case of Funk, there is insufficient data to make an informed purchase.

What indication would you expect to see on a manufacturer's website?

CEA2034. If not that, some wide off axis measurements plus power response. E.g. Genelec provides latter, but no 2034, and that's fine. Genelec designed the 1032A 30 years ago, long before spinorama was widely promoted, and it looks good in the spinorama.

You've done no decent research and are making more assumptions.

Research into what? Funk? Psychoacoustics of loudspeakers?

Funk's speakers are designed by Mark Kravchenko. He is a member and posts here occasionally (@mwmkravchenko). Perhaps you'd like to review Mark's post history and his company website before deciding if he needs your schooling on driver and speaker design.

Commercial OEM Drivers & Speaker Design | Kravchenko-Audio

Founded in 1989 on Research and Development. Dedicated to the design of High Performance Drivers and Speakers. Knowledge based practical application of industry leading methods to produce top quality transducers. Custom production of Low Distortion, Dynam

www.kravchenko-audio.com

That's nice but science doesn't care. Show us the data.

By the way, "they" seem to be well aware of "in-room targets", in 2014:

How Do You Buy High-End Speakers?

There is no problem if you are listening "to the speakers" and they make you happy, however if you want to listen "to the music" as it was intended the recorded measurements can show you how faithfully the speakers can reproduce the recording. But you have to know how to read the measurements...

forums.audioholics.com

That post has no mention of in room targets.

 

[MKR]

May be nearer to truth when used by themselves but certainly not when used with its matching sub. The combo is as large as Salon2 and certainly as loud.

As to the directivity check both speakers spinorama charts. There’s no more sweet spot for them than there is for Salon2.

View attachment 241420

@sarumbear Got it, thanks! In fact if if I go with the Genelecs, will be 8361+W371, so seems my concerns are not warranted. Good to know. Your comments are especially helpful and valid since you have direct experience with both Salon 2 and Genelecs! Thanks again

 

[jhenderson0107]

...if I go with the Genelecs, will be 8361+W371...

Consider also the 8351B+W371 since the '51B laying on it's side atop the W371 is a superior mechanical match and its coax drivers are identical to those on the '61A. That's the choice I made for my system.

 

[BrokenEnglishGuy]

I stand corrected. Thanks, I learned something here.

I still think there is value in having a powerful speaker, even if you're not going to use it. Much like having a sports car that goes 200+ mph.

View attachment 239503

Information in feet lol, someone please correct that and put it in meters...
Was a joke

 

[steve59]

I'm impressed at how well this thread has held together! Most of the time at least on other forums each individual recommends what they personally own then describing how they got there, but threads like this ultimately end with we can't tell you what you are going to like. What ASR does is take any personal preferences and dismisses them with a klippel stamp and/or dsp. Over the last 7 years I owned the salon 1, salon 2, usher be20dmd, VA Strauss, kef R107/2, meridian dsp 8000se, paradigm persona 7f and currently kef blade. The quest started in replacing my 25 year old kef R105/3. I've also had extended time with the perlisten s7t and really like what they do in their small listening window. If I can offer any subjective impressions let me know. btw buying and selling used is the only way I could afford to do this.

 

[Adi777]

I'm impressed at how well this thread has held together! Most of the time at least on other forums each individual recommends what they personally own then describing how they got there, but threads like this ultimately end with we can't tell you what you are going to like. What ASR does is take any personal preferences and dismisses them with a klippel stamp and/or dsp. Over the last 7 years I owned the salon 1, salon 2, usher be20dmd, VA Strauss, kef R107/2, meridian dsp 8000se, paradigm persona 7f and currently kef blade. The quest started in replacing my 25 year old kef R105/3. I've also had extended time with the perlisten s7t and really like what they do in their small listening window. If I can offer any subjective impressions let me know. btw buying and selling used is the only way I could afford to do this.

Which speaker is the best for you? I know you like VA Strauss, but what about the rest of speakers?

 

[Speaker_tweaker]

Over the last 7 years I owned the salon 1, salon 2, usher be20dmd, VA Strauss, kef R107/2, meridian dsp 8000se, paradigm persona 7f and currently kef blade. The quest started in replacing my 25 year old kef R105/3. I've also had extended time with the perlisten s7t and really like what they do in their small listening window. If I can offer any subjective impressions let me know. btw buying and selling used is the only way I could afford to do this.

How did the 105/3 and 107/2 compare to the more modern speakers like the blade and the salons? I believe the 105/3 is the classic "problem speaker" Toole shows in his book and in presentations.

 

[steve59]

The R105/3 had a serious sibilance that took me years to minimize, and the bass couldn't keep up with the uniq output, but I kept them 25 years and surprisingly I found the R107/2 tweeter bright in side by side comparison, both speakers were colored by modern standards. The Strauss, are really fun bass heavy with a forgiving mid and tweeter that had me playing all the old 60's and 70's rock and roll I could I don't understand the science, but VA speakers and jazz music are special, i'm just not all that crazy about jazz.

Which speaker is the best for you? I know you like VA Strauss, but what about the rest of speakers?

The Blades seem to fit my room, system, and personal taste the best so far. I've previously posted my time with the salon 2 my amp wasn't driving those woofers so even though I enjoyed everything they did well the lack of bass was odd as there was no soundstage connecting the images otherwise I might have kept them. Paradigm persona 7f are the most sensitive to components, placement, etc of any and I just wasn't willing to invest in building a complete system around them, but they can be exceptional if you want to dedicate some time and money into them. the meridians and ushers were just too big for my room and bass was out of control. With the exception of the strauss I gave each speaker pair around 9 months of tweaking and listening before moving on. When I get an offer on my Blades that'll break me even 'll sell those and move on even though they're my favorites I enjoy the hobby and trying the next new(used) product is fun.

 

[MKR]

I'm impressed at how well this thread has held together! Most of the time at least on other forums each individual recommends what they personally own then describing how they got there, but threads like this ultimately end with we can't tell you what you are going to like. What ASR does is take any personal preferences and dismisses them with a klippel stamp and/or dsp. Over the last 7 years I owned the salon 1, salon 2, usher be20dmd, VA Strauss, kef R107/2, meridian dsp 8000se, paradigm persona 7f and currently kef blade. The quest started in replacing my 25 year old kef R105/3. I've also had extended time with the perlisten s7t and really like what they do in their small listening window. If I can offer any subjective impressions let me know. btw buying and selling used is the only way I could afford to do this.

@steve59 Agreed! This has been a great (and helpful) discussion. And thank you also for your very relevant experiences. I would be curious to hear more detailed comparison of your time with the the Salon 2 vs Perlisten S7t? First I hear the s7t has narrow listening window. Definitely a negative for my listening preferences.

 

[MKR]

Adding a few more to my short list …

GGNTKT M3

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?attachments/237628/

O Audio Verdande

Verdande

www.oaudio.no

Tom Danley Signature

Home - Tom Danley

Danley Sound Labs is excited to announce our new line of Tom Danley Signature series loudspeakers. Tom Danley is known for his innovative and creative designs that are found in the largest and most demanding performance spaces across the globe. Tom’s love of music started by being introduced to...

tomdanley.com

 

[Speaker_tweaker]

@steve59 Agreed! This has been a great (and helpful) discussion. And thank you also for your very relevant experiences. I would be curious to hear more detailed comparison of your time with the the Salon 2 vs Perlisten S7t? First I hear the s7t has narrow listening window. Definitely a negative for my listening preferences.

One nice thing about spinorama graphs is you can compare two speakers and see which has the wider listening window. All you need to do is look at the distance between the early reflection curve and the listening window curve: the farther they are apart, the narrower the listening window. By this measure the s7t is narrower than some other speakers like the blade and revels.

 

[steve59]

I think KR hinted at the listening window when he said all 3 speakers sounded alike from a few feet away, but the blade meta 2 was a clear preference from his listening position.

 

[steve59]

One nice thing about spinorama graphs is you can compare two speakers and see which has the wider listening window. All you need to do is look at the distance between the early reflection curve and the listening window curve: the farther they are apart, the narrower the listening window. By this measure the s7t is narrower than some other speakers like the blade and revels.

While I have no idea how to read the chart it matched my experience, that said the s7t might be my next speaker because I do most of my listening alone in the evenings to unwind and fall asleep. Who knows how many years it'll take for a used pair of blade metas to hit the market.

Somebody who's ears I trust suggested the Yamaha NS 5000 is worth a listen.

 

[benanders]

Is the OP still taking input on this project?
I went a somewhat different, niche route than those discussed, and while mine is far from flawless and not “end game” (will it ever be for anything tech?), some elements of it may be worth consideration be them for pro’s or con’s.

And here’s to terminating my years of ASR-lurker-only status

 

[Adi777]

I went a somewhat different, niche route than those discussed, and while mine is far from flawless and not “end game” (will it ever be for anything tech?), some elements of it may be worth consideration be them for pro’s or con’s.

Can you write something more?

 

[squarewave]

@MKR, I think you should add 8361A+7380A to your list also.
With subs it will go lower in frequency which I think you will like for movies.
Also note that W371 is pretty tall (1108 mm | 43 5/8 in). I think this is easily missed.

I'll build a nice system for you
2x Genelec 8361A
2x Genelec 7380A
2x https://www.genelec.com/accessories/s360-415b-floor-stand
2x https://www.genelec.com/accessories/8260-450b-stand-plate
https://www.genelec.com/glm-kit (You also need a microphone stand). One 5m grey cable is included for every speaker/sub.
With DSP speakers we want to go digital to avoid extra conversion:
Bluesound Node N130 (Use COAX output)
HDMI cable to your TV

pro snake BNC to RCA Cable 2,0m

Cable Adapter Length: 2.0 m, BNC on RCA, 75 ohms, Neutrik

www.thomann.de

Neutrik NADIT BNC-MX

AES/EBU BNC Adapter Male Cable End XLR 110 Ohm to Female BNC 75 Ohm

www.thomann.de

4x https://www.thomann.de/intl/pro_snake_tpd3_5_fm.htm (Select the length you need)
You just connect to the first speaker. Then from the first speaker to the second and so on.
The cables should be 110 Ohm. AES/EBU uses the same cables as DMX (for professional lighting).

 

[srrxr71]

@MKR, I think you should add 8361A+7380A to your list also.
With subs it will go lower in frequency which I think you will like for movies.
Also note that W371 is pretty tall (1108 mm | 43 5/8 in). I think this is easily missed.

I'll build a nice system for you
2x Genelec 8361A
2x Genelec 7380A
2x https://www.genelec.com/accessories/s360-415b-floor-stand
2x https://www.genelec.com/accessories/8260-450b-stand-plate
https://www.genelec.com/glm-kit (You also need a microphone stand). One 5m grey cable is included for every speaker/sub.
With DSP speakers we want to go digital to avoid extra conversion:
Bluesound Node N130 (Use COAX output)
HDMI cable to your TV

pro snake BNC to RCA Cable 2,0m

Cable Adapter Length: 2.0 m, BNC on RCA, 75 ohms, Neutrik

www.thomann.de

Neutrik NADIT BNC-MX

AES/EBU BNC Adapter Male Cable End XLR 110 Ohm to Female BNC 75 Ohm

www.thomann.de

4x https://www.thomann.de/intl/pro_snake_tpd3_5_fm.htm (Select the length you need)
You just connect to the first speaker. Then from the first speaker to the second and so on.
The cables should be 110 Ohm. AES/EBU uses the same cables as DMX (for professional lighting).

You describe exactly where I was headed until I realized better to bite the bullet and just get the w371s. I would have had everything you said exactly (uncanny) plus 2 7360 sitting near the mains.

For reasons discussed in this thread. Better to just go for the w371 instead.

 

[dkinric]

Is the OP still taking input on this project?
I went a somewhat different, niche route than those discussed, and while mine is far from flawless and not “end game” (will it ever be for anything tech?), some elements of it may be worth consideration be them for pro’s or con’s.

And here’s to terminating my years of ASR-lurker-only status

Welcome! What did you get?

 

[Benedium]

How about using 4 subwoofers?